Wall Street Protests

[Kasz216]

Raze said:

Kasz216 said:

Raze said:

badgenome said:

Raze said:

That's where we differentiate, I suppose.  You seem to think that violence begins with the protesters, I see it as beginning with the police. Of course, to be entirely honest, I see protesting as a giant waste of time, and believe that if they want the CEOs attention, they'll follow them to their house and get their address and post it online for the world to know. Because you never know what maniac will go vigilante and hunt the greedy bastard down. Either way, it'll seriously diminish the CEOs quality of life, making them quicker to react and more willing to listen.  >=)

I support the movement and anger of the OWS protest, but this hippie/peace-loving crap will accomplish nothing.

 

Well then, take heart, little fella. Doug Schoen polled some OWS protesters and found that one-third of them are as in favor of using violence as you are.

=D Little fella? I was born in the 70s and I'm over 6'2

Let me clarify, I'm saying that peaceful protests accomplish nothing, especially when you're yelling at a bunch of mostly-soundproofed buildings.

@Kas - Interesting article, my solution is a complete revamp of the US gov't. That's the REAL source. Without the regulations from long ago in place, the big businessmen have nothing keeping them in line. Between the worthless oil wars, massive bailouts, freely giving billions in international aid, protecting bigwigs from prosecution, I feel justified in saying that the US government has failed the people, and that it's time to start anew.

I'm not calling for people to go start killing cops or CEOs, I'm calling for people to do something significant, instead of meditating in a park.

Between active , reserved and retired military, government milita forces and local police throughout the US, the combined amount equals to less than 1% of the US population. The US unemployment rate is 9% of the population. If HALF of the unemployed revolted, all of the defensive forces would be outnumbered by over 4 to 1. Combine that with the concept that a good portion of the  military - active, reserved and retired, would not side with the governing powers in case of a revolution or civil war.

What I'm saying is - be prepared. I can see the fuse is lit, doesn't take a clairvoyant to see that.

 

 

 

1)  You said you're not caling for people to start killing cops or CEO's.... then your very next sentence is about Killing cops and CEOS.

2)  Most of the Occupy Wallstreet movement is for international Aid.  Additionally, they're against things like the new natural gas drilling that will bring tons of jobs becuase it's not alternative energy... so half your reasons don't mesh with the movement.

3)  Thirdly, there were no Oil Wars.  Or if they were oil wars they sure were shitty ones, since before the invasion of Iraq most of the oil produced their went to Europe in the corrupt oil (and kickbacks to Un officials) for food (and banned items) program.

Now the majority of Iraq Oil and newly discovered natural resoruces goes to China.  Afghanistan oil production isn't really getting anywhere.

4)  Protecting Bigwigs from prosecution... if you mean Wallstreet, then no, they aren't.  Those who actually were guilty of crimes were punished, "Wallstreet criminals" is really nothing but a false labeling.

If you mean certain officials that have been accused of warcrimes.  I don't see how this hurts the average person.

5) There is no system of government free from lobbyist involvement, actually as far as political corruption goes we're very low on the scale because we have relativly small government compaired to most of the world.

Most of the shit that's "corruption" over here isn't even considered so in other countries. 

1 - Thats a bit of a massive leap, I said do something significant - something more than flop around a park all day.  Damn Kas, I'd hate to see how you go from being bored to not bored.  =D

2- I support the movement in its disgust with the system, not in its proposals. I am not a socialist. I don't quite recall discussing natural gas drilling, so I'm not sure how that's relevant here. I fully support independently generated energy, such as enhanced solar or turbine power. I believe everyone should create their own energy for consumption, at home and in transport alike. (which is a lengthly technology discussion for another time)

3 - The US gov't seemed to feel that success in Iraq would help with oil control. How exactly still remains a mystery. Having contact with many people in the military who served in Iraq, even they state that our involvement in Iraq had nothing to do with Hussein. Maybe you can shed some light on how Al'Qaeda = Iraq, you might be better read on the topic than anyone I've spoken with yet.

4 - A bit of a tangent, if you read my OP, I actually stated that I don't believe that the anger should be focused on Wall St (with exception of oil speculators who are quite shady, but again, different discussion). My point is moreso with the whole Cheney scandal,  how GWB Jr protected him from testifying, his direct involvement with Enron, etc. It's more the politicans being protected from justice than CEOs. CEOs get busted for bribery or have the SEC on their backs at least.

5 - Agreed there, but would you not agree that lobbying has constricted a lot of progress in this nation, such as agendas to keep oil based energy relevant? What if the US citizens themselves were the system of checks and balances? It'd be pretty hard for the lobbyists to buy the vote of every eligible American voter, no?  I believe in a direct democracy, a leader with a skeleton crew gov't, and the people of America vote on what is passed and what is not. Yes, it sounds idealistic and very hard to manage, but I think it can be done.

1)  That didn't actually adress anything.  Also if people are going to revolt because of europeon level unemployment... we're in real trouble as a people as far as realism goes.

2) Supporting someone who will make things worse is just, stupid.  Even if you do agree with their overall reason of being upset.

3)  Those people in the military, were any of them actually policy making people?  Why would your average footsoldier be told anything about why people invaded.  Where are you getting the US thought it would help "oil" control.   Hell where are you even getting "Al Queda"?   The offical line was "Weapons of Mass Destruction". 

The unoffical line is Bush beleived in Democratic exceptionilism and that he could just knock over foreign countries with unpopular leaders, set up a democracy and all would be well... and what better country to start with then the one that

A) His father couldn't conquer

B) Tried to kill his father.

C) Was giving the US a great excuse by not letting weapons inspectors in, and by lieign to Saddam Hussein who actually thought he did have WMDs.   Well more WMDs then he had, because they did find WMDs, just not the big name WMDS like nukes.

D) Is right next to to Iran who is causing all kinds of trouble and can't be as eaisly directly acted against.   Sure Afghanistan is right next to Iran too, but the worthless 3/4ths of Iran.  If you ever look at a map of Iran you'll notice everything is situated on the third to the west.

 

4)  That's one politician,  I wouldn't mind seeing an investigation into Cheney but considering the fact that i believe he donated all his Enron money to charity as soon as he got it, I'm not sure what the motivation for corruption would be.  However most politicians generally do get charged or investgated for bribery, sure some get away like Frank Dodd.  (How he's the head of the "anti-banking bill" and people take that bill seriously when he was caught taking bribes from banks i'll never know.)

5)  I actually think direct democracy could work pretty well with modern technology.   The issue is we'd have Tyranny of the Majority and people would either put their short term benefits ahead of the long term or even worse put neither ahead of each other and vote for something that "sounds good".   The demands of the Occupy Wallstreet movement which are mostly gibberish pretty accurately reflects this.

A $20 minium wage sounds great to the laymen.... in practice....