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Kasz216 on 04 October 2011
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richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:

  Basic laws of economy are, if you want to have more, you bring more to the market.  You serve and you solve.  You bring goods and services.  But, do we have that today?  Nope.  The idea is to "stimulate" and somehow the Keynesian sugar rush will make everything wonderful.  Well, it isn't.  Instead, we produce more and more zombies, in the form of individuals and organizations who are out for their own, and getting more.  And there is the debt bomb also.  And factor in everyone for themselves, and you have zombies.

Society would be a lot better if people learned how to properly serve and see problems, and work to solve them, rather than ending up needy beggers.

Yep... instead of saying "this is where we are now we need to work toegther to get out of this"  the government instead talks of stimulus and blames the rich. 

Because it's easy, and easy to get reelected that way.

They tend to follow more along the lines of "They Live."

Another problem is well, most people don't know the basic laws of economics.   Ask most people and they probably still live under a "zero-sum" idea about how the economy works.   

IE, there is a finite amount of wealth in the world, therefore to have more, someone must have less.

Based on the signs, most of the protesters are under the same illusion.

I wasn't sure where to shorten this, so I chopped it off here.  What is happening is that the first part of what you wrote about working together is getting undermined by increasing class warfare talk.  There is your side, but there is also the other side which then blames everyone who is getting shorted for their own problems.  There is corruption going about at the top, for one thing, and also culturally that undermines the ability to work together.  But, rather than discuss and try to reach common ground, things happen that I run into, where it is either red or blue and crush those who aren't on your side.  I have gotten those words thrown at me, for example, so I know them.  And you see it happening in Washington.  It is blame the other side.  It is thinking the only way the rich get ahead is by being evil, or that the only reason why you aren't rich is that you are lazy or don't want it enough.  I could get go, from a humble human's perspective speak about the Christian message here, and say how none of that even remotely fits what Christ would have.

Anyhow, I would say MAYBE there is a chance to do with the Occupy movement what didn't happen with the Tea Party.  MAYBE people from a more conservative and/or libertarian perspective could get involved and help direct things.  What I do know is a LOT can be done, and won't be done with every man for himself.  This isn't going to cut it.  On my end, I am looking to see if I can get involved locally in things.  I am also seeing about working with a startup who gets other startups off the ground, and hope that makes a difference.  Will see how it goes.

I wouldn't say those who aren't rich are lazy or don't work hard enough.  I would actually say that there is a certain group of people that can never be rich because they just don't posses the right tools to become rich because they either can't or didn't work smart enough.

There are many ways to become rich, but even if you had complete god like control over every single person i'd doubt you could create a situation in which everyone was at a state we'd consider "rich" currently. 

Though being rich really shouldn't be everyones goal.  Really it shouldn't be ANYONE's goal, since you don't need to be rich to live a good life.

Though most people would be better off if they accepted that they DID make a mistake rather then blame an outside force.

You can pretty much always point to a reason someone didn't succeed.  Afterall most people don't have a flawless view of economic reality.

Afterall, in your particular case, do you really believe if you were given a chance to go back in time and keep retrying to succeed that you would NEVER find a way to be rich no matter how many different choices you made? 

Of course even if failing is someones fault it's not like you should let them starve. 

This is why you do need a social saftey net, though the way we do it is INCREDIBLY stupid and wasteful.

We would be much better served eliminating every welfare plan we have currently and replace it with a negative income tax that's paid to the person directly.  You'd still have people who fail, but at this point it really would be their own fault.