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Kasz216 on 20 September 2011
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Lord N said:
osamanobama said:
mrstickball said:
Lord N said:
osamanobama said:
Lord N said:
osamanobama said:
Lord N said:
Kantor said:

You can't force the very wealthiest people to pay exorbitant tax rates, because they will just refuse. They'll move elsewhere, or hire yet more people to find loopholes.


I'm sorry, but this is bull.

First off, where are they going to go? Every other developed country on earth (as well as some of the underdeveloped countries) has far higher tax rates than the United States. Secondly, the rich had to pay a tax rate of 91% under Eisenhower, and before Reagan's tax cuts, it was 77%, and rich people certainly weren't leaving the country en masse.

This argument gets more ridiculous every time I see it.


no they didnt

Then how might you explain this?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Seriously, if you're going to call me out, then at least do research and post sources.

you mistaking what the official tax rate was, 

and what people actually paid.

 

you said people paid 91%, they didnt. it was much much much lower than that.

and for the Reagan example do you really want to use the time of Jimmy carter, the time of stagflation as an example of why high tax rates are good?


Those are income tax rates, so they ARE what people actually paid. There are also capital gains taxes, which, while lower, would still have been higher back then than what they are today.

I said that the RICH had a tax rate of 91%, which they clearly did. It's right there in plain english for anyone to see. You haven't countered anything that I've said. No matter how you slice it, the idea that the rich will pack up and leave because of higher tax rates is bull, because they had to pay FAR higher tax rates in previous times, and guess what? They didn't go anywhere.

If you want another example, the Clinton years saw some of the highest tax increases in history, and again, the rich didn't flee the country.

As for your last statement, higher tax rates have nothing to do with stagflation. Again, the rich had far higher tax rates in the 50's, 60's, and 70's while the economy was booming, and again, Clinton raising taxes in the 90's didn't exactly destroy the economy.

 

 


One should note that although rates were near 90%, the actual tax revenue from everyone has generally hovered around 20% of GDP, regardless of the marginal tax rate. For example, when Reagan slashed rates, the tax revenue was still around 20%.


yep, i believe that called the 18% rule

This is not about tax revenue, and you know it. You're avoiding what I'm saying and scraping the bottom of the barrel.

The argument was that higher tax rates would cause the rich to up and leave the country, and I think that such a notion has been utterly disproven. You talk about percentage of GDP this and actual tax revenue that, but the fact remains that the rich had to pay a lot more in taxes in the past than they do today. In marginal tax rate made no difference, then no one would be making such a big fuss about it, nor would the rich be doing all that they could to have it lowered. Neither higher taxes in the past nor tax increases during the Clinton years led to a departure of the rich. Again I ask, where would they go? Everywhere else that's developed would tax them far more heavily. If the rich want to pay the lowest taxes possible, then they'll stay right here.

Switzerland, Dubai...

or really anywhere... since this is talking mostly about a minium tax rate tied to Capital Gains which basically would wipe deductions that basically.... every other country in the world has... making investments as a person in the US much riskier then any other nation and a tax rate nearly as high.

25-28% on capital gains in the US, with no deductions or 21.5% in Canada where would you rather live.  (Capital gains is half of 43%.)

New Zealand doesn't even have captial gains taxes on investments that are focused in New Zealand!

 

We aren't talking about the Tax rate of the rich... we're talking about the Captial Gains tax of the rich.  Which actually was 25% under Eisenhower.  Well 25% or 50% of your capital gains aren't taxable. 

 

Worth noting... they went down until the 1970's... when they went back up and had a huge problem economics wise.  Then in 1979 they were dropped back down as income taxes rose... because a low capital gains tax is pretty vital.