Boy Forced to Live in Forest with Father for 5 Years Found in Germany

[Kasz216]

sapphi_snake said:

Kasz216 said:

2)  You obviously haven't understood that, afterall someone is rejecting the majority of their culture... what would you call that?  You would say that... the only reason, one person rejecting the majority of their culture isn't valid, is because they're only one person?   However if it's two or three it's ok... becuase.. it's two or three people?

3)  Tell that to the many indigenous tribes that practice volentary isolation from the modern world?   I'm sure they'd be glad to know they don't exist.

Furthermore, no, Isolation isn't only considered good for religious reasons... lots of people choose isolation for non religious reasons.  Nor is Isolation really seen as harmful by itself.  As there are plenty of cases of people who are stranded on islands who are perfectly healthy mentally when found.

Though yeah, plenty of survivialists DO do that, and not because of Apocolyptic tendencies, it's just not mentioned in the vaguesness of wikiepdia.  It's the "Back to the Land" movement of survivalism basically, but not because of apocolyptic tendencies, but just because of the rejection of technology for a love of nature. 

A) He's not mentally retarded, he just wasn't in a school.  You do know that mass public schooling is only like 200 years old or so right?  There were plenty of people who were smart before they needed schooling... and exactly how much of what is taught in school is useful for "Live in the woods your entire life".   If we took a member of the Coruba tribe, forced them to go to highschool, do you really think it'd do much of anything for them compaired to living those years in the forest.

The Police reports say he didn't have any body odor, was completely clean and his clothes were competely clean when he reached civilization.  How many 17 year olds do you think could accomplish that after spending 6 days in the woods alone?

A2)  Police reports indicate no signs of abuse, isolation is not shown to have negative effects psychologically.

  Neither has full solitude for that matter.  The only times Solitude tends to drive people crazy is when they have NOTHING to spend their time on.  IE keeping someone locked in a box alone with nothing to do like solitary confinement in jails.

 

B)  In otherwords, your saying in fact you don't think minority views and culture should be respected at all then.  What's considered to be abusive, and what can be proven to abusive are two very differnt things.  That forcing a child to forgoe an education is abuse or cruel is just an opinion, there is no real proof that such a thing is abusive.

B2)  Again, subjective.  For all you know, the guy could of wanted to live in the forest with his son BEFORE his wife died, but the wife loved technology so much.   It's like saying someone left to live in San Diego after their mother died because they couldn't stand to live in Chicago anymore, expcept.... maybe they planned to move to San Diego well before then, but didn't because they had responsibilties to take care of with their mother.

You've simply rushed headlong into a snap judgement based on a small news article, TONS of conjecture and little to zero expertise in the field.

2. A person is free to do that. That doesn't mean that he's starting a counter-culture, because culture only exists on a group level. Culture has no purpose outside of a society (i.e. a group of people).

3. Tribes? You mean groups of people?

Regarding the 'stranded on a desert island' thing, wouldn't it also just be a matter of time?

It seems to me that what you're calling 'survivalists' actually refers to a sort of hippies.

A. The thing is, the boy obviously doesn't want to live in the forest. So the lack of an education (and his extended isolation from social interactions with other humans) won't be easy to overcome. It's also irrelevant that in the past mass schooling wasn't practiced. It's a necessity in contemporary society.

Regarding that police report thing, you are aware that that's just a sign that this whole story is bogus, no? There's simply no way that could be true if he had spent the last 5 years in a forest. But for the sake of argument, we'll just overlook that one.

A2. Ignoring what I said above, isn't the fact that he has no memories of his life before the forest a sign of abuse. I assume perfectly balanced individuals don't forget usually extended parts of their life, no?

B. Just because minorities shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want (e.g. human sacrifices), doesn't mean their views aren't respected.

Forcing a child to forgoe an education is considered abuse in our society, and also provable. It's simply impossible to properly fuction in a society if don't have a minimal level of education (e.g. if you can't read, it's unlikely you'll find any kind of job, not to mention that most jobs these days require a high school diploma).

B2. Yes, this surely is so probable. *rolls eyes*

I also am quite sure that any social worker would deem 'the forest' an unfit environment to raise a child (and there's also the education thing). Not to mention that you are essentially saying that a person can do whatever he wants , and if that thing is illegal (i.e. vandalize a a store) he can just say he's 'rejecting the dominant culture' and is now a minority and can't be touched. You are aware that the world isn't the Libertarian dystopia of your dreams, no?

A) Says who?  The only reason he left the forrest was the death of his father which was likely quite sudden.   Kid was 17.  If he wanted to not live in the forest he eaisly could of just left and found his way back to society.  Like you know... he did after his father died.

Also... no that isn't a sign that it's definitaly bogus.  Soap dates back to Ancient Babylon.  Someone well trained enough could eaisly make their own soap, live in a tent and wash their own clothes and appear just as clean as someone living in regular society.

A2)  Somwhat hippes, but not really since hippes don't reject most technology.  Hippies just care more about respected the land.  With Isolationists, it's more "Modern technology is a corruption of evolution, makes you weak and is unreliable by coddling us and making us unable to deal with real problems without it... or sometimes even with it."

B)  Then prove it... so far your proof is "Illeterates can't get jobs."  Except, they can... you have no proof he was an illerate and if he was at 12... chances are school wasn't doing him any good anyway.... oh yeah and THEY WEREN'T PLANNING TO LIVE IN MODERN SOCIETY.

B2) Again with the appeal to authority.... I guess when people ruled that "black people weren't fit to vote" that was perfectly ok then?  What makes respecting this man's desire any different then a specific ethnic groups desires to do the same?  I'm not talking about "Anyone should be able to do what they like."   I'm asking why someone is restricted from doing something with no proveable harm, that other groups of people do get to do, based apparently soley on there being more then two of them.

You've yet to prove any actual damage done to the kid while living in the forest, largely because you don't even know what it was like living in the forest... and considering the above thing about how clean he was... you probably don't even think he lived in the forest at all.

 

If we're going to do deductive jump to conclusions reasoning... we now have only two cases.

A) The Boy, who was perfectly clean, was either making this up... or

B) The Boy, after his father died, buried him in a shallow grave, and walked and survived all the way to Berlin, while keeping himself as clean as an ordinary person, with no signs of abuse or malnutrition.

Possibly all the way from Czechlsovakia if you believe the German police who think he likely came from Czech Republic via the Bavarian National Forest... and up to a year ago since the police are asking for info on any bodies found in the woods for the last year.

Seems like his father was teaching him SOMETHING.

 

Do you think he really has less knowledge then your average 15 year old? 

 

Hell, do you even know what the penatly is for holding your kid out of school in Germany or Czech? 

As far as I can tell... custody can't be removed for it.