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Soleron said:

It was in a book called The Music of the Primes by Simon Singh. It said that if we could prove the Riemann hypothesis was undecidable (per Godel), then it would have to be true, because if it was false one could find a counterexample and the problem would not be undecidable. So if it is undecidable it is true but we cannot show from the axioms of maths that it is.

I'm not claiming I can show those things are more true. I'm just trying to say that the fact you can't have an absolute proof standard, not even with mathematics, doesn't mean it is useless to argue about anything. God can't be proven or disproven =/= 50% chance of god existing. Gravity can't be proven or disproven =/= 50% chance of gravity existing. 

The incompleteness theorem means your personal logic can't be proven to be consistent either. Even if it's different to normal maths. I can also tell you don't have enough maths or physics education to understand what you are saying by fourth spatial dimension.

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My main challenge to those of faith is:

if your god is a personal god that has an effect on the universe, why is the effect not measurable using science?
Alternatively if your god does not affect the universe, why is he deserving of worship? Your actions will have no effect.

I'm sure that there's a lot more to it and that it's probably difficult to explain in two sentences to someone completely clueless about it, but that really seems like the most laughable logic I've ever heard. Lack of a counterexample has never ever been the way to prove something.

Also, I really think you're misinterpreting me. I'm not trying to claim that everything that you can't prove is equally possible and impossible. I think we're really on the same page here - I'm just saying that you can't prove that one plus one equaling two is more likely than the existence of God/gods, even if it likely and almost certainly is.

Oh, and I never said I could prove that my personal logic is consistent, either - I'm nearly sure that it isn't -  I said that it doesn't matter whether or not it's consistent as long as I'm pleased with it. And I'm pretty sure I made it clear from the start that I likely don't know what I'm talking about in this case. Repeating it just makes me feel stupid.



 

“These are my principles; if you don’t like them, I have others.” – Groucho Marx