| Sri Lumpa said: |
"None of which are relevant to the question of why we should apply a different moral standard to him. Indeed, if he is love and all things associated with love then we should have no need to apply a looser standard that allows him to sanction mass murder."
In God`s purity and grace there is no room for evil. That`s why some people even go through purgatory before entering heaven and why others who reject God (who reject what God is in It`s essence) will go to hell.
There`s no need for a looser standard. What i have been trying to say is, we can`t read God like we are reading another human because, even if we share something with Him, we are not purity and grace and morality like He is. The result of this is what makes in our eyes something like punishing with death immoral, but to God, who reclaimed the gift He gave first, as acceptable.
And no, it`s not the same as a mother taking back a son`s life. JUst because you see the same actions doesn`t mean one judgment fits all.
"So have you yourself read the bible? If not how do you know that I am the one who is far off in looking at god in his entirety?"
No i haven`t. But i have been read in church for years, both old and new testament. It`s not a question of how much one has read, it`s a question of perception of God. What you do is forget that you and God are different and reduce Him to your standards.
"But telling them about god forces the choice for them as it puts them in the same position as if they had made the choice to do a bad action."
What i do does put Him in the face of a choice - as i always agreed with - but that`s just it. The choice is in neutral ground, it does not put them in a position of a bad choice, it just puts them in a position and nothing more.
But as i said before, it`s no diffferent than your every day life. You say i raised the bar, but that`s an "illusion". It`s still a choice like any other because they can act on it like in any other choice. The perception is that it`s way harder, when it`s not.
Both quotes you gave me were after Jesus but only one specifically referred to the belief part - which was the shortest quote. The other not only referes to that but to the fact that God - your concious of good and right - is now seen in it`s full light.
In your view, how then could people know Jesus before He was even born? Because it`s not to be read that way.
"But to ask you need first to believe. Do you ask allah to give you faith in him? Of course not, because you don't believe in him. Do you ask ganesha for belief?..."
That`s the point, to have faith you need to open yourself to God. And with that you`ll get the living water (God`s endless love).
What Jesus did was explain to her and the world what He offers you and how you can get it.
"The aurora borealis was the sign, according to Lúcia."
Mary spoke of a sign in the sky as the sign where the world would receive punishment. Lucia read that sign as the sign of God.
First, the center of WW2 was Hitler. He was the one who triggered it beggining 1938. It`s not me trying to fit anything, it`s how it happened.
Mary didn`t speak of a world war, she spoke of a bigger and worser war, fammin, martyrs and the pope.
From what i read, it was the church who came out late enough to spread Mary`s warnings (only in 1939). The consecration and convertion didn`t mean that Russia would become pure, as not any country is. And Mary was very specific on the consacration, which only happened with John Paul II.
It was given to Mary for her protection and love. So, it`s not a question of converting to catolicism as i pointed out.
The time of peace was only given and promised after the consecration of Russia. Not before. Does that mean that the world in its entirety would be all loving? It`s not what was promised.
"having the law punish his actions is his punishment."
Which means, live by the sword, die by the sword."
You are being to literal about this example. I could give you another: those who don`t forgive and hate bind themselves to a life without peace and hate.
The whole point is to see that the punishment of God is not smacking you in the head when you do something God, it`s His lack of love.
When people reject Him they get a life without Him. That`s the punishment i was talking about.
"The problem is that you are finding morality frivolous."
No i`not. With God everything that He asks of us is to be taken into consideration. Morality is as important because it reflects on others our faith and God Himself.
Jesus did ask us to love those who loves and those who don`t, and it`s not just a question of doing it in your heart, but actually showing it.
"And so we come back to the lack of unambiguous punishment and guidance and how this proves how lousy a father god is."
Why does it make it ambiguous? Because you have to read every single event in your life? Don`t you already do that?
"And god can forgive the offense done to him but he cannot forgive the offense done to others"
God forgives everything if people truly repent.
"Matthew 7:15-19"
Yes it is. Jesus met them in His lifetime and was even trialed by them before going to Pontious Pilate.
"Does that mean that you love no girl that is in front of you?"
That`s not the point i was trying to pass. But i admit i did not explain well. Think of S. Thomas and how it`s important to believe without seeing.
After seeing God, it`s not so much how you will love Him but how you will believe in Him.
The girl is already in front of you all the time. There`s no believing first.
Even if Lucia wrote the letter after the aurora doesn`t mean the prediction was less of a prophecy. If anything, the Church came out too late to do anything in time - as Mary already foretold it would happen.
"That's my point. It is not moral for god to judge them for not having a conscience that god did not give them in the first place. He made them evil and then will punish them for being evil, sorry but that's evil"
Do you know how or in what way God will judge these people who have ASPD?
"They might be aware of their actions but they are not necessarily aware of the morality of them as their morality is often corrupted by religion with some religions saying that blowing yourself up to kill others is moral*, other religions saying that mass murder is moral and others saying that torture can be moral."
Not only are people aware of their actions, but they are aware of it feels when doing them and how people react to them. That`s a lot of information in your hand.
Not to forget that people have a mind of their own to judge things.
When people follow hate and silence the pain of others or morality, they "decided" to follow a path, to adhere to a way willingly.
But as before, only God knows exactly well why people decide this or that way of life.
