Ann Coulter says welfare policies responsible for looting....

[richardhutnik]

badgenome said:

richardhutnik said:

HappySqurriel said:
The welfare state is a system designed with good intentions that has a lot of unintended consequences that do more harm than the the good that is provided by the system ...

With that said, I don't believe the riots in London have anything to do with the welfare state or the poor in general. Much like the Vancouver riots, the riots that are associated with every G20 meeting, and the growing wave of criminal/violent flash mobs in the United States, you have a generation who was raised with an unprecedented focus on self-esteem and have massive entitlement issues; and have no empathy for those who worked hard to build anything for themselves.

In attempt at irony, Coulter's belief system implodes in a puff of illogic.  The basic point that I thought conservatives argued was that individuals are responsible for themselves, and that if people make it or fail, it is due to their own decisions and their own person conduct.  This is why you punish criminals in the name of justice.  For Coulter to then go ahead and try to engage in irony to say it is the welfare system that produces crime would totally undermine what else she tries to say.  But anyhow, no one counts Coulter as being able to hold anything logically consistent, particularly when you make a career in the political area of biting the heads off of bats, or try to be the Lady Gaga of political commentary so people pay attention to you.

Well, apparently you don't understand social conservatism at all, then. I doubt there is anyone on Earth who believes that people develop in a vaccuum completely independent of the culture around them, but that isn't to say there still isn't an aspect of personal responsibility. Regardless, you still have to punish criminals, because to do otherwise creates a culture of tolerance for bad behavior, which in turn will only lead to more bad behavior. All Coulter is doing here is pointing out that, in her opinion, these riots prove the point that conservatives have long made: moral relativism and the welfare state are destructive things. It's fairly amazing to me that you don't understand this. I suspect your disdain for the messenger has rendered you unable to comprehend her message.

If you were to look at classic conservatism, which is what Hobbes and others wrote on way back in the day, where you had a collective community that enforced values in it, and tried to preserve that which is.  Such individuals believe that the preserving of values they believe makes a country great.  Such individuals will have laws punishing violation of morality and so on. 

Well, what happened to what has been is that classic liberalism won out a lot of the debate, and the modern secular society came into being.  Along the way, Marxism gained a foothold in economic debate, and the government then because viewed by individuals with a liberal perspective as the means of progress for all individuals.  In Europe, socialistic leanings developed, and I believe you will see individuals who are conservative party there, advocating more government programs and supporting the welfare state.  This is not true in America, where conservatism now is mostly classic liberalism, outside of the area of morals.

In regards to disappearing in a puff of illogic, Libertarians would argue that conservatives do that.  They don't go far enough in their views of smaller government.  They have selective belief that some government meddling is bad, while others are good.  Like Coulter would support the drug war, and throw people in prison, and feel it is a good thing.  But then say the welfare state corrupts people.  What do prison do for people?  This is not logical:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qaiz8gNw3M