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Farmageddon on 09 August 2011
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sapphi_snake said:
Farmageddon said:

1. By normal I meant standard. I felt like that was obvious in context :P

It's not normal because it's not the "norm". Is anything wrong with that? No, but if you read what I wrote my whole point was that being unconfortable with/"not liking" (please don't interpret hate there) is natural and not, by itself, disrespectfull, and that the more different something is from the normaly accpeted, the more deviant, the more likely people are to not be confortable.

So if you want to call me a homophobe when I say affeminate guys or guys hooking up are not to my taste, go ahead and do so, but you're doing the entire "cause" a huge disservice when you cry enemy on someone who respects you and your choice and is in reality against the people who actually hurt you, specially when so many people fall in that category. You also show yourself extremely naive and unrealistic if you think everyone HAS to like you down to the very last aspect, including the more "extreme" ones.

And that was the pont of my examples. Also, it's not like "the majority" around here bashs or actually discriminates gays. That's NOT mainstream at all. It's frowned upon in many, many circles. It's actually a minority "within" the so called majority that will do that to any considerable degree. With those other groups I mentioned it's kind of the same thing. It's not hard to find people who despise machos or hippies, not any harder than it is to find people who actually ostracise gays. But I would venture a guess that it's harder to find people outside of their group actually defending them. All of this of course refers to the reality I perceive around here, I'm not talking on a global scale, even if I suspect much of this would hold.

2. Look, some people exagerate their suffering and minimize their own "sins". It's just true of the human condition. It's true of straight, gay, black, white, yellow, Christian, theist, Islamic, minority and majority. And it can be exacerbated given certain conditions or interests. To deny this is beyond ridiculous.

One example (of what I meant, not as much directly of this) is something player1x3 (I think) mentioned, that slavery is not just a white thing and that if whites had more slaves and were not slaves themselves it was just because they were capable of, not because everyone else was so noble. 

The point, I believe, is not that that measn white people are superior, but something more akin to you and me both trying to punch each other's face. Say I block you punch and hit you. Now I'm the awful person and you're the poor victim. That is how the reasoning seems to go, which is ridiculous. Truth is, we're both asses and the fact one of us pulled off his intentions while the other tried and failed shouldn't make a difference.

3. It was just meant to differentiate between them believing it's wrong to be gay and them being against gays themselves. I don't mean it like it's a decease or anything, relax. I take you have no problems with the rest of that point, tho.

4. Ok, and I need to see them not :P

sapphi_snake said:
salaminizer said:

it had videos that were meant to be shown to kids, for example, there was one featuring a transexual kid that was annoyed because the teachers would call him by his male name instead of his female name.

and about the "privileges", here in Brazil APPARENTLY (I couldn't confirm this, sorry) there were plans for quotas in public schools for gay teachers and scholarships for transexuals.

as I said, it's MOSTLY about intolerance, however, there's this increasing sense here in Brazil that if you're part of a minority the government will make your life easier (we have racial and social quotas for universities with absolutely questionable criteria)

LOL, that's like envying homeless people for getting free food and used clothes from charity.

LOL, that sounds like you actually understand the "absolutely questionable criteria" mentioned and the reality of the place he's talking about.

1. 'Your choice'? Seriously??? And there are certain parts of a person that you should be at worst, indifferent towards, but certainly not dislike, or hate.

2. Except , if you do hit me you are an evil attacker and I am a poor victim. You can only punish people for what they actually do (or so I've been told on other topics from this site). The fact that other people practice slavery doesn't get white people off the hook.

3. There's no difference between thinking it's wrong to be gay and  hating gays, considering homosexduality is ian intrinsec quality of homosexuals. It's like saying 'I don't hate men, I just hate penises. If they chose to castrate themselves, we'd be great friends'.

1. I'm not sure you're objecting to the term choice (as in it's who they are or something, I don't know) or, perhaps more likely, thought I was being literal with "your", which wasn't the case. Either way doesn't really affect the point I was making.

And come on, don't try to tell me what I'm allowed to dislike, that's absurd. And in a sense the examples I gave where not even "parts of a person" but some specific actions of a person. But really, you mean I'm somehow obligated, moraly or otherwise, to not dislike to see two guys hooking up? Please.

What matters is how I react to it. Calling me an homophobe for that, while it might pass some arbitrary definition check, is just short-sighted.

2. LOL. You attacked me just as much as I attacked you. We both wanted to do the same. And I was never talking about who deserves punishment, I was talking about cornering others into shame and portraying "yourself" as the poor innocent victim for something some ancestors from the other person did to "yours" even if "yours" would (and in many case did) do exactly the same.

This is not about punishment, it's pretty much the opposite, it's about being realistic and living in the present as opposed to living in a skewed one-dimensional past that never really existed.

Btw, please don't pretend I'm denying slavery or anything.

3. Of course there is. First of all thinking something is wrong is very different from hating something. Actually, I won't bother elaborating this much. Tell me, do you believe it's impossible for a christian to not hate gays, for exemple? Frankly, you sound delusional and paranoid to me :P

Btw, I don't see how having your rights would ever get in the way of one being proud, but w/e.