| Sri Luma said: |
"I claim that if something is moral when god does it but immoral when humans do it then it is moral relativism."
No, this is the difference between God and men. Of course, it would be easier to understand or accept, if you first accept that God is the creator and only He or by His command can certain things be done. We aren`t God so we aren`t allowed to do what He does, because we aren`t even like Him to behave like Him.
So, even if someone says it is the name of God, doesn`t mean that He is speaking through them.
That`s why i spoke about leveled playing fields. Given your example of moral relativism it shows that we are on the same level, but doesn`t apply to God.
To me, of course i can`t judge God`s morality since my morality comes from Him. But could anyone do it? Well, are you God to understand Him in a way that is fitting? A man judging his maker without knowing His maker doesn`t seem that will lead to a good result. I can judge human actions because i am human, but i don`t know what it is to be God in the same way that i know what is to be human.
And i`m sorry, but in my view, that is playing God as you are switching roles.
If you know about the Bible, then you know that Satan had no power over Jesus and Jesus even exorcized and gave power to do so to the apostles. Also, it is said in the Bible that hell was created for Satan and all the angels that followed him.
The danger of hell or heaven is exactly the same. It was and still is 50/50. Is there more criteria to decide on salvation? Yes, there is. But doesn`t change anything. Did things become unbalanced? No they didn`t.
You say that i should ask if someone wants to know more, well, should i ask people if they want to know or be shown about life? Because in knowing about life they also risk heaven or hell. Isn`t that the same principle? If i am guilty of teaching/showing someone about life - which even starts at giving birth - i am also guilty of throwing them to the street - as you say. Isn`t the person`s decisions that will give them heaven or hell, while living their lives? When people raise their kids do they ask them - as you want - before opening the door of their houses to go to school, friends, etc?
I don`t think that there is anything you that doesn`t, eventually, put them in heaven or hells path (simple or complex things). That`s what happens in a world where people live together.
It`s the same context when i tell them about God.
Things is, yes there`s a risk, the same as before, but the questions isn`t that, it`s why people believe and why they don`t believe. This is what makes the difference. Because, in the end, the risk is meaningless when people can and do decide what to do.
I see the sidewalk as heaven and the street as hell. In my view i put them at the beggining of both. That`s what`s done when there are two ways to go. He or she is the one who decides where to walk. For saying that i threw them to the street, you also need that i threw him to the sidewalk aswell - which doesn`t make sense. Why? Because even if they were good, doesn`t mean they were bound to be good for the rest of their lives.
It`s their responsability for all their actions. It would be mine if i hide something from them or forced them to something that they couldn`t avoid. But they can.
What you are doing, is assuming that someone is already saved because they were good. All you can honestly say is that they were good until a certain period of time.
"Second, if that was true then why do different religions have different requirements for salvation and why do some religions (like the Jews and some christians) not believe in the same kind of heaven and hell most christians do?"
I honestly don`t know. That`s a question you need to ask to those people.
Associating God with cronyism is not understanding God at all. God doesn´t favour "His friends" - as i showed in the quote from the other post -, He rewards those who accept Him and He punishes those who say: You are not my Truth, Life and Path and end up following someone else, something else or themselves.
Then you should ask those other people why they don`t believe Christ to be there saviour.
"So who should I believe? The bible when it says "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned" or the catholic church's doctrine of reparation?"
Both. Our prayers are for God to touch their hearts to help guide them with faith and have mercy on them even for those who are in purgatory.
"If god was good then he wouldn't have arbitrary requirements for avoiding being tortured. That he is willing to have good people tortured because they do not believe in him is reason enough to say that he is not absolutely good."
It`s not an arbitrary requirement but only to those, like you, who see salvation only through morality. But as i said before, God isn`t just morality. Not for those who knew Him and not for those who didn`t know Him.
So, they were good, wanted nothing with Him (rejected Him as Life, Path and Truth), yet, they still get Heaven, which is exactly what they rejected in the first place? That makes no sense to me. It was those same people that put themselves in a position to be damned. Rejecting those 3 categories is the reason for hell. Accept it or not, that`s the reason. The purity and sanctity of God has no room for anything else but those in whom He lives.
Who says that God doesnt`t punish you or that He doesn`t try to help you change? That`s what happens throught your whole life. That`s why God gives you all the chances to change your ways.
"I don't think it is caring. It is just stroking god's vanity to get what you want."
When people pray for the conversion of sinners, they do it for the good of those people. They touch God`s heart and He does what we ask of Him. Is that so bad?
