| DélioPT said: Pointing out that something is a sin doesn`t make me a moral relativist - as some actions are outside of God. I find one thing moral and another immoral. |
It is not that that makes you a moral relativist. What makes you a moral relativist is that the bible (especially the old testament) describe many cases of immorality performed by god and yet you equate him with morality. For both to be true it means that you need to apply a different moral standard to god where what he does is not immoral even though under the standard you apply to humans it is. different standards mean you are a moral relativist.
| This is where we really part ways. Nothing is seen as a default situation. You don`t, by default, get heaven or hell. Before and after people learning about God is still the same situation: either heaven or hell. |
That's not what you said earlier. You said on one side that good people that did not accept god (positive action) went to hell (default action in the absence of the positive action) but those good people that did not know about god went to heaven (default action in the absence of the positive action).
| if teaching about God is putting someone in front of a car, so is showing them the world. |
How is it? If I teach them science or bring them traveling around the world (both of which are showing them the world) I am not putting them in a situation where they inherently risk being tortured unless they do something specific. If you teach them about the spiritual world you believe in you are putting them in a situation where they inherently risk being tortured unless they do something specific.
| In the end they step aside or they get run over. And i don´t understand why you keep seeing that teaching the word of God is pusing someone in front of a car... |
Both are actions undertaken by a person putting another person in a situation where absent any action a great peril awaits them. Would you say that Jigsaw, from the movie series Saw, is not immoral because "In the end they escape the traps or they get killed"? I doubt it, yet what you propose doing is worth as the torture you propose to subject them to is not temporary until their death, like in the movies, but continues for all eternity.
| no one pushed anyone to anything. |
If you warned them and they asked to know then you did not metaphorically push them, if you didn't warn them then you pushed them by leading them in the dangerous situation without warning them.
| In a sense all i do is: this is a road, watch out for cars as they might kill you. Stay on this side because it`s safe. |
Nope, if you teach them about god you are first pushing them onto the road and saying "if you don't get off the road (believe in god) you will be killed (damned)". Had you not taught them, some of them might have been in danger, others might have been safe but it would have been their own responsibility. Now that you have interfered and made sure they all were on the road it becomes your responsibility.
| And showing people about the world does put them in danger of hell. |
Showing people about this world does not. Showing people about the supernatural world you believe in does.
| It`s faith and morality together that might save you. Might because you have to have both to find salvation. And about faith, people have faith because they see proof, but, as i said, it`s not something everyone accepts as enough. It`s not like there isn`t the Bible, miracles or apparitions or even that they don`t feel anything inside them. |
Then why are you not a muslim? By the same standard they have proof too, it is not like there isn't the koran, miracles or apparitions or even that they don't feel anything inside them?
Then why are you not an hindu? By the same standard they have proof too, it is not like there isn't the vedas, miracles or apparitions or even that they don't feel anything inside them?
| You keep seeing being good as enough for salvation, when it`s not. |
I am not saying it is, I am saying it should be; that it isn't just shows that it is not about morality.
| Everyone can be good to the people that they like. What about forgiveness, for example? |
And everyone can be good to people that like them, even god. What is hard is being good to people who don't like you, so hard that god himself can't do it and sends them off to be tortured instead.
| "You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?" -Matthew 5:43-48 |
So it is a case of god saying "do what I say, not do what I do" as he preached to love even those who don't love you yet does not do it himself.
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Everything in God is of importance. Deciding to take this or that thing out is playing God. |
I am not arguing whether it is playing god or not, I am arguing whether doing so is moral or not. In your system of belief it is not as it condemns good people to a torture they would not have otherwise suffered.
"I do not suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it"
