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Kasz216 on 01 August 2011
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Bong Lover said:
osamanobama said:
Bong Lover said:
osamanobama said:

also not to mention that letting people keep their own money doesnt add to the deficit, but pretending it does.

government never gets the amount in revenue that they predict from tax increases, and in this case getting rid of the obama tax cuts (we had i vote on these tax rates not to long ago, i seem to remember obama was in office, and he suported it along with his super majorities in both houses of congress) changes behavior people shift their money around, also businesses will be less productive, higher less people, etc, therefor will pay less taxes, than say they had a thriving business with lots of employees. so raising taxes would not only have a detremental impact on economic growth but tax revenue too (there will be a ever so slight increase in tax revenue, though it wont even put a scratch on a microscopic dent on our debt)

I am sure that is what you remember, but in the real world these cuts were set to expire at the end of 2010. The republicans threatened with a government shutdown if the Bush tax cuts were not extended. Same tactics, same result as the current debacle in Congress, and yes, America is suffering as a result.

The way I see it there are two possible ways forward for the USA. Either you continue with very low levels of government spending, but then you have to stop trying to provide social services even remotely similar to the rest of the Western world. Alternatively, increase funding and strengthen the social safety net. Right now the US is stuck in a position where they think they can provide social security, basic health care, public education and a stable infrastructure without paying for it. Most Americans probably don't realize that the quality of health-care and education in the USA is absolute shit compared to most other developed western countries. The infrastructure is following the same trajectory. The only area where the former superpower is not being outperformed by the rest of comparable countries is in military power. Who knows how long that will last though?

Of course, with the two party system currently in place, the only real choice Americans have is is they want to abolish the safety net quickly or slightly slower.

 

yes, and they had supermajorities in both houses, if the wanted to get something done they could have, but the election was coming up, so they pandered. and they would have been even more destroyed in the election if they raised taxes.

wealth gap has only been increasing since we started all these social programs, they dont work, privatize them, and they will provide a better service for a lower cost.

and we keep doubling and doubling spending on our monopoly on eduction yet scores havent gone up for nearly 50 years, that should tell government something. we should eliminate the department of education, one of the least of reasons is because its unconstitutional.

and our healthcare system is the best in the world, thats why we have the highest survival rates of nearly every medical conditions. could it get better, you bet, you get government red tape out of the way and you will have it. get medical mal practice reform, allow people to buy insurance across state lines etc

I see, we can just make up facts to fit to our arguments? The Democrats did not have a super majority in either house when the tax cuts were extended. If they did, the tax cuts would not have been extended for households making more than $250,000 a year.

The wealth gap has been escalating since the introduction of supply side economics in the early 80's. There is absolutely no credible connection between the New Deal and the current huge increase in the wealth gap.

Finally, the health care system in the USA is the best in the world only in the minds of Americans. It is true that for extremely complicated surgery the top talent is in America, but this does very little to benefit most people. The truth is that healthcare in the USA is of very poor quality at a very high price in the general case. I've lived in both America and overseas and have seen the differences first hand many many times. But, my observations are just isolated examples. If you care to investigate your belief that survival rates are higher in the US than other Western countries the numbers are freely available. You'll see that except for a marginally better survival rate for breast cancer, the US scores low in almost all categories. At a much higher price per patient none the less.

Actually, when you take out confoudning variables, you find out the US does just as well if not better in most areas.

Often ignored is the fact that US patients come to the hositpals in worse shape due to higher rates of obesity and other factors and the US having much looser reporting methids.  (IE every death = a death).

Another confoundign variable is that we don't live in a vacuum.  IE Europe benefits from the many discoveries and perhaps more imortantly refinements of technology and medicine that happen in the US.  The US is set up by far to be the leader in biotechnology, and is specifically due to the profits that can be made here.