Why do we exist,GOD or BIG BANG theory?

[Sri Lumpa]

DélioPT said:

You speak of a catholic miracle because Mary is associated with Catholicism or Christianity in general. That´s why i mentioned that it wasn`t made with a religion in mind. It`s for everyone. Of course some might reject if they are part of a religion that doesn`t see Mary as mother of Jesus/God.

I speak of a Catholic miracle because you mentioned it in response to player1x3 asserting hell as a state of mind and not a physical place. If your aim was t to argue that then you would have been better off doing so quoting the new testament as he seems to put credence in it rather than something more specific. What you are doing is the equivalent of arguing with a jew that Jesus is the messiah by quoting the new testament: it might be a correct quote but it wouldn't advance your point and would be irrelevant unless you knew that jew put credence in the new testament.

I spoke of understanding with "" because it was not to be read as an intellectual ability or lack of it. It`s more on a  broader sense: understanding with heart and mind. But i won`t speak too much of it because that would be putting words on God`s mouth and, as Jesus, said, their hearts were hard - to understand.

You don't teach little kids about right and wrong (morality) by allowing them to do wrong things unpunished. You punish them whe nthey do wrong even if they don't understand why it is wrong at the time and as they grow up and their intellectual ability develops then you can start teaching them not just what is wrong but why it is wrong.

I maintain that god should not have given laws lacking in moral to the Hebrews, especially if their heart was hard (as they would need such laws more than somebody with a good heart). He should have given them good laws to live by and if they did not understand them immediately it would not matter, only that they start obeying them, the understanding could come latter.

But believing doesn`t exist per se. With belief you also have love.

You don't understand. Belief? Love? Both belief and love? If heaven was about morality then neither should matter, only whether somebody is moral (or at least trying their best to be as nobody is perfect). I am not saying that either belief or love or both should disqualify but I am saying that them being requirements means that the christian view of heaven is not based on morality but on being "part of the gang".

It`s like understanding where good comes from and doing it because you know it comes from God and how it`s important for Him and in a sense, for you. 

Are you claiming that belief in and love of god is the only path to goodness? If that is the case then you are arguing that all those billions of people that do not believe in your specific god* cannot do good for goodness' sake. If that was the case you would expect countries with a majority of the populations believing in those religions  to be completely immoral. Yet, by and large, people in those countries adhere to many similar moral codes as those in Christian countries.

And if you don't claim that god is the only path to goodness then rejecting those other paths that do not include belief in and/or love of god makes the act of saving not a moral act but a "part of  the gang" act.

* atheists, buddhists, hindus, shintoists,... possibly muslims and jews depending on how narrowly you want to go.

Morality is just a part of it.

Which is my point. If heaven and hell was a moral thing then that would be all of it. That morality is just a part of it means that it is not moral.

I never said that souls get destroyed, if that`s what you are thinking i said, if not, i`m sorry for misreading you.

No, I said that I had more respect for those branches of christianity that believe in the destructions of unsaved souls as opposed to eternal torture. It still doesn't make the proposition of heaven moral as it still is a private club whose membership is not based on morality alone but at least they don't torture people forevermore for not being part of the club even if they are otherwise moral people.

 but believe me, it`s completely different when actually have faith and live that faith.

It is a common mistake of believers to assume that unbelievers do not know what it means to have faith and live it. My parents are believers and so they raised me in their religion. As most children I accepted my parent's teachings as true until I was able to determine for myself that :

1. They are only human and don't always tell the truth.

2. Even when they tell what they believe to be true they still might be wrong about it being true.

This means that until that time I too was a believer who had faith and believed that faith and know what it feels like.

You are basically arguing that an adult cannot understand what it means to believe in Santa Claus because he doesn't believe in it. He might not believe in him now but a lot of adults did believe in him as a kid and thus understand what it feels like and what it means.

You also get heaven forever, not just hell. People have their whole lifes to make a choice and you also have people on your side to guide you, the Bible, miracles, apparitions, signs in your life. If after this you still say no...

I ams still saying that putting requirements beyond a person's morality for saving (morality in their heart, not just in their acts) makes the act of saving an act not predicated on morality and thus amoral. The extra bit about punishing people for eternity for something not based on moral makes it, in those faiths believing in hell, an immoral thing.

Aim your eyes and heart at God and heaven and that`s all that matters.

And that is the problem. It should be "Aim your eyes and heart at being a good person and that 's all that matters" if it was about morality.

What about you? You seem like a decent enough fellow that tries to lead a moral life. One day you will die (hopefully after a very long, happy and fulfilling life). What if you then find that the god you set your eyes and heart on was the wrong god. Would you think it would be moral to have you be tortured for eternity merely because your parents believed in the wrong god and taught you the wrong belief? Even though you do your best to be good? Would you simply accept such a judgement or be outraged at the injustice of it?