| sapphi_snake said: A. But does Christianity in any way or form have any relation to reality, as it claims? Any system can be thought up to pass Immanent Critique, however religions have no value outside of themselves (which would be somethign necessary for a belief system claiming to perfectly explain the world). C1. Really? States as good by whom (not to mention that "it's good because I say it's good" is a logical error)? We were not referring to Christianity in this point, so you can't use Christianity as a referrence. We actually were not referring to any belief system whatsoever. I challenged you to prove that "helping others" is intrinsincly good, the same way being red is an intrinsic quality of fire ants. Of course, you will not be able to do this. "Goodness" is itself a subjective quality, which has no value outside a belief system. You can't prove that anything is objectively good. C2. No, I was not discussing free will because it had nothing to do with my issue with his statement. One has to either follow god's laws to get into heaven, or repent for his/her "sins" (thus acknowledging god's laws and their superiority). People who disagree with god are doomed to eternity in hell, because what they think is irrelevant.There is no room for individuality in Christianity, because ultimately you have to renounce it if you want to be "with god". Human laws are meant to assure a peaceful coexistence. They're meant to protect humans, and their individuality. If I find that a law is unfair, I can make attempts to change it. You cannot change god's laws, and they do not have human's best interest at heart. D. There's no point in seeign a movie, if knowing what happens is all that matters. Why are agency or experiencing life important in the first place? If God loves everybody, then why does he send people to hell. You can say that those who reject him chose to go to hell, but does anyone want eternal suffering? God is the one who created hell, and made it so those who reject him go there, so can it be said that he loves everyone, when he condems those who don't love him to eternal torture? Also, isn't your definition of immanent critique only limiting to internal critique? |
A) This statement is totally irrelevent to the topic at hand.
C1) Except we were talking about Christianity. This whole conversation is framed around "that statement is nothing but contradictions." Outside of that, well, yes I can... and I did. Helping others is seen by all cultures as good. People have a strong pack mentality. If you think there is another culture where it was infact seen as bad to help others, feel free to show it. Well, actually you won't be able to, because if such a beleif existed, there would be no culture... since that's what culture is generally based around..
C2) You do realize that nothing here actually rebutted what I was saying right? All you've said is "Man's laws are better then gods!" I see you keep trying to spin this off into a greater debate,
D) I see you don't know Eastern Orthrodox theology as well as you think. According to the Eastern orthodox church, one does not need to be Eastern Orthodox to go into heaven.
Heaven and Hell are states of being in the presense of god. Those who are in gods presense who lived a good life withing him, are filled with the eternal happieness and harmony of the creator... they are in "Heaven". Those who are in gods presense who lived poorly and rejected god, live in "hell" because they know they failed their creator and strayed from their purpose in life.
God doesn't send you anywhere. You end up sending yourself "there". Which isn't so much there as it is a state of being.
Also yes, immanent critique is limited to only internal criticisim. Saying a statement is nothing but contradictions is also an internal criticism.
