AbbathTheGrim said:
Play4Fun said:
AbbathTheGrim said:
RolStoppable said:
Sure, you could claim that the 360 and PS3 have better exclusives, but you would be wrong. Other than pure subjectivity you would have nothing to back it up. |
Nintendo only knows how to look for a different way that Mario can jump over another turtle to defeat it. Nintendo cannot enter with games targetted to different markets that exclude little kids, they don't dare to do it, they know they can't succeed, as it happened with Eternal Darkness.
While 360s and Sony's exclusive make serious attempts to push videogames as ways of art, Nintendo has nothing. They can't make a decent story with their frachises, they can't make their characters say meaningful things that won't sound lame. And if you are of the ones that think that videos get in the way of gameplay, take for example masterpieces like Bioshock and Fallout which have the most intelligent merge of gameplay and story without any of them getting in the way of the other.
There are games in Xbox360 that I would like to have in my PS3, but there is nothing in the Nintendo console that I would be interested in. My mother found a DSi with Mario in it and, apart from playing some parts that she cannot get across, I don't touch that thing for anything.
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I didn't want to get involved in this thread, but...
- " Nintendo only knows how to look for a different way that Mario can jump over another turtle to defeat it."
Sony and MS only know how to look for a different way to shoot another guy to kill him. See what I did there?
- "Nintendo cannot enter with games targetted to different markets that exclude little kids, they don't dare to do it, they know they can't succeed, as it happened with Eternal Darkness."
Games like Metroid, Zelda and SMG 1 & 2 are made just for kids, people. You heard it here first. Adults only play games that are 'art' and have stories with cutscenes. They don't play 'kiddy' Nintendo games.
- "While 360s and Sony's exclusive make serious attempts to push videogames as ways of art, Nintendo has nothing. They can't make a decent story with their frachises, they can't make their characters say meaningful things that won't sound lame."
I laughed at this point. Sony and MS are trying to push games as art. Right...that's their goal.
Good stories are so rare in video-games that it's downright amusing you would make this point.
" And if you are of the ones that think that videos get in the way of gameplay, take for example masterpieces like Bioshock and Fallout which have the most intelligent merge of gameplay and story without any of them getting in the way of the other."
That's great and all, but it has been shown that the majority of gamers out there prefer games that lets them be in complete control of their character. They don't want cut-scenes after cut-scenes and Quick time events and all that shit. They want to play their way, not the way the devs want them to play. They want to be able to "make their own story" and not be forced to follow a shitty story-line they don't really care about.
There's a market out there that loves a long story with their gameplay and those games should keep being made but that market is significantly smaller than the larger market.
Not sure why you keep talking about art this and art that. You are playing video-games first and foremost. Not sure what you are trying to convince yourself of. A game like SMG 2 is full of creativity and can be argued to be art even though it doesn't try to be. Art for you must just mean blood and cursing and guns since you say Nintendo games are not art. You are probably one of those people that feels your maturity is threatened when someone tells you that games are toys.
Stories in games are still in their primitive stages and have a LONG way to go. Come and talk to me when the majority of games trying to push stories don't have a shitty and cliched story.
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1) Flower lets you control a petal who ventures a fields in a quest to restore beauty to nature while every action you take emitts sounds that enriches the music you hear in the background which comes to be a rich soundtrack of diverse tones that evoke feelings of melancholy, warmness and sadness.
Ico forces you to protect a little girl and take her through various obstacles. Her death means the end of your game, the bond you create with her throughout the game is meaningful and the game is a great excersie for the mind.
In Heavy Rain, a game that made me realize that in order to achieve that impact of a user in a videogame you don't need to make an RPG, lets you control various characters and your actions have an immidiate or long term consequence in what happens. There is a lot of improvement that could be done with this concept, letting you affect the storyline in a deeper way but this game is the tip of the iceberg and the possibilities are endless.
Now, tell me how Nintendo brings this diversity?
2) I said that Nintendo does not dare to make a product that earns a rating which will exclude little kids. I am not surprised to know that adults play those games and even I could enjoy them as I enjoy games like LittleBigPlanet, good old 2D Mario, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, etc. and I played several times games from the NES and SNES, but videogames are becoming something that goes beyond entertainment and Nintendo is not on that boat. There are times where things need to touch themes of sexuality, violence, suffering and you cannot be restrained by a Teen or Everyone rating. But oh well, what cares Nintendo about stories in the first place.
3) A painter sells his paintings, a musician performs in concerts and asks money for entrance. This does not jeopardize the artistic value of what they do. If you cannot realize the depth surrounding characters like Snake or James Sullivan and the emotions that provoke a simple yet heartbreaking game like Shadow of the Colossus, then you either haven't played them or you don't attach to games of this kind. I know people who have no interest in music, paintings or well-written movies so I won't be surprised.
4) "It has been shown that the majority of gamers out there prefer games that lets them be in complete control of their character"... where? Are you one of those people that releases data out of common sense and tries to pass what they conclude as facts. Tell me which stadistics you took in account? Tell me which survey was conducted that showed such results? Tell me what organization made the survey? Tell me the number of the population that the survey made an impact to and what was the demographic? You cannot provide this? Then don't make such generalizations.
You just showed that you have no idea of what you are talking about when you are talking about Bioshock and Fallout. I won't say it myself, ask anyone who has really played Bioshock and Fallout and ask them how many cut-scenes and quicktime events those games have between the intro and the ending. Make some research before writting please. I mentioned those games because the story is not presented through cut-scenes.
You think you have control over your character with games like Metroid, Mario and Donkey Kong? Can you choose to side with Koopa? Can you forgo the neverending quest of saving the Princess? Can you opt not to do the quest to save the princess and get immersed in what is happening in another kingdom? Can you let the Princess die and continue the game? Can you talk Koopa and make him surrender? What is the freedom you are talking about?
You say that the market of people who want videogames with stories is smaller than the one who just wants to play? Tell me which stadistics you took in account? Tell me which survey was conducted that showed such results? Tell me what organization made the survey? Tell me the number of the population that the survey made an impact to and what was the demographic? You cannot provide this? Then don't make such conclusions.
And what if the market is smaller? Transformers earned 709 millions while Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind only got 72. What is your point?
Games are becoming art. And some games are providing true unique artistic experience through them which you cannot have while watching a movie, watching a painting, seeing a sculpture, listening to music, or reading a book. If you are not interested in videogames as art, perfect, that is your bussiness and I enjoy such games as well, but don't try to undermind what games like Silent Hill, Fallout, Flower, Mass Effect, Heavy Rain, Shadow of the Colossus, and others are doing, or you will fail miserably.
Stories in videogames can be as good as any other work of fiction in another form of art. Go and play great games with great stories and if you can play them without your agenda in mind you will see it, unless you think that Ice Age is miles better than 2001: A Space Odyssey, in which case, there is not much that can be done for you
If you can reply to my post, reply to everything and don't argue back only against some points here and there that you came up with something against.
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