sapphi_snake said:
A. It's irrelevant when the belief system itself is contradicted by reality. (then again, in culture reality doesn't matter, and appearently people confuse culture with reality often) C1. You said "it's good, because it's good". That's a tautology. And I'd like you to show me how helping others is in itself good. I know you can't, but amuse me. And no refrences to Christian dogma please. C2. This is what he said: You also have free will to do what you want with your life aswell - although there are consequences for all your actions -, so there`s all the room for individuality and unity with God. This is a contradiction. He sais that people have free will to do whatever they want with their lives, but also that god has deemed certain actions as being "right", and certain actions as being "wrong". In other words god isn't interested in people expressing their individuality, but rather in them caving in to conformity and "sameness". What room is there for individuality, when there already is a standard model that everyone has to adhere to in order for them to be "with god"? Christianity is also a belief system that claims to explain reality, so I'd say that whether or not it actually has any connection to reality or whether it's pure fiction is quite important. D. What's the relevance of what you wrote? It seems like you meant to write this regarding the above point. We were talking about what Christians "think", and I actually used Immanent Critique to illustrate this contradiction in their beleifs system. It's not what I think, it's the logical conclusion that you come to when using the very rules of the Chritian dogma: if life has meaning and purpose (the purpose being salvation, and proving to god that you deserve it), but god is all knowing and already knows what people will do before they do it (and essentially what people will be "good" and end up getting saved, and what people will be "bad" and end up in hell), then life is ultimately pointless, because the purpose Christians attribute to it is negated (they don't have to prove anything to god, as god already knows what they will do before they do it, so life can just be skipped altogether). Also, why don't you answer the questions you asked me yourself. If I remember correctly you're not a Chritstian, or religious. Why do you, as a whatever you are, chose to live? I chose to live because I want to, and regardless of what others may think of this reason, I do not care. With my limited knowledge of the universe (no different than the knowledge that all humans have, whether they like to admit it or not), it's the best and most honest reason I can find to want to live, without resorting to fantasies and delusions to find justifications for life. |
A. Well, YES. It's called Immanent critque. For a belief system to be full of contradictions, it MUST be so by it's own standards. Though whether or not it contradicts reality is really unrelated since you've offered no proof of reality, only an equally unsupported opinion.
C1. Again Immanent critque. Though sure, there has never been a culture or even species of animal that has not seen helping others as something that should be done and "good." It is one of the very few concepts that is morally absolute to the point of where psychologically one has to generally distance themselves greatly from someone else before they could leave someone let be.
C3. Again no... it's not. If my father says to me "I wish you to be a carpeneter" but you decide not to be, you are expressing free will. Your father has not taken away free will because he'll be mad if you aren't a carpenter. Otherwise you may as well argue there is no such thing as free will, since nearly EVERY choice we make in life has positive or negative implications. Do I want to go to buy a candybar or an apple? One of those has a greater benefit then the other, that doesn't mean i'm not exercising free will if I choose one.
D) That would only hold true if life did not impact the indivdual in anwyay. IE, life holds no value. Have you learned NOTHING over the entire course of your life or never changed your opinion on anything? If god were to take Oskar Schindler into heaven before the Holocaust, would he be the same as the Oskar Schindler after the Holocaust?
Furthermore, if god did do so, it would remove a person's sense of agency which would REALLY make the whole point of seperating the faithful and nonfaithful pointless.
You aren't thinking hard enough... the problem is you aren't using immanent critque because you've already come up with your conclusion before you started, are hellbent on being right and therefore aren't rationally thinking through the situation.
It would no doubt leave a lot of people confused and bitter, as opposed to resigned and repentful.
Me? I think life is very meaningful.
