zuvuyeay said:
Kasz216 said:
Or to put it another way... the best way to describe Marx's ideals is summed up in one TV Show. Star Trek the Next Generation.
The people in Star Trek the Next Generation basically act how Marx wants people to act. There whole society was kinda based around Marxist ideals, by choice, due to World War 3... because the horribleness of World War 3 convinced people to completely change how they thought and acted. Something basically made and maintained by the will of the people, the Federation and other such things existing only because it's needed.
Engles was more of a "Deep Space Nine" type. Such a perfect society can work, but there will some friction still, and you will need star fleet to keep people in line.
While Lenin thought like this but thought they needed to control people even more and that manipulation through propaganda though lies could help the original goal. (Like say... Section 13 or whatever it is in DS9 that acts as a quasi independent secret police)
While Stalin just outright thought he needed control over everything. Which to "brainwash" an entire population and counter basically everything we know from both nature AND nurture... you probably would.
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i actually really like star treks,i find them very amusing,its interesting what you say,they live in a world where almost everyone is happy to be treated differently and everyone always makes the right decision,which would never hapen of course,no matter how many world wars we had |
I think it's possible for people to evolve in that way... look at all the positve social progress in the last 200 years.
it's just not going to happen thanks to the barrel of a gun....
because what people tend to forget is... those in government are also people.
The only way society has true lasting change is by slow painful progress.
Increasing socialism and shirking off responsibility for those in need to the government while well meaning is actually a GIANT backwords step that in the long run makes people more selfish.
People think of it as the governments responsibility... then when the government can't pay for it anymore, or the government disapears for whatever reason... there is nobody who cares to pick up the pieces.
The problem with marxist ideals is in general... once the big government "falls away" it's more likely .
