Hephaestos said:
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you thought it was balanced?
When were you thinking that? In between town only mislynching once, AND no lynching day one, and three scum crosskills, and STILL getting to a position in which the last day was between 3 players?
Game should have been over day 4. When I died, I knew game was over. People argue that SK should always kill, but SK is a mafia balancer. SK WILL take out at least one scum member, or, at least in a three day period, the SK has a 41% chance each night averaged out (using this game's numbers).
Scum had a janitor, which is counterbalanced by a hobo. Instead, we were counterbalanced by a hobo AND ONLY poison kills unless we killed our poisoner. Which would take 2 days to kill. In addition, the town had a bulletproof (miller didn't matter since no cop), a friendly neighbor, an actor, siblings of which one was a BG (WTF), a psych for the SK, and a tracker. 4, potentially 5 confirmables.
Look at it for a person like Linkz. He's a sibling with a BODYGUARD. A bodyguard's counterbalance is that he doesn't know who he's really protecting. There's no surety that he's not wasting his guard. So, anyway, that's one confirmable. Say then that Vette messages Linkz. That's a second confirmed. And then Linkz tracks ABC like he did. That's 3 confirmed, 4 including himself. And he can talk to his sibling, so both he and leather can confirm 2 others. Potentially 4 confirmed in one single night.On top of that, your actor role is pretty much confirmable too. On top of which the poison itself confirms players as non-mafia.
So now you're thinking, "ok, but you only described why you think town is overpowered. But at the beginning, you were just saying how hard it was supposed to be for town to win. I don't understand your point"
Ok, mafia had a poisoner, a witch, and a janitor with 50% success rate. They could only kill with poison. Anyone they want to kill takes 2 days, meaning that if we wanted to take out linkz, we would have to first find and kill the doc (we already assumed linkz would be doc'd every night as he was the best contributor) and then kill linkz. So, say night 2 we go to poison linkz for the hell of it. day 3 leather shows up poisoned (confirming him). We cheer. Night 3, he dies, and we go to poison linkz. He is able to be blocked AGAIN by the bodyguard because that's how poison works, they still get a night action. We could instead go for someone else who will die two days later, and then poison linkz on Night 4, confirming him to town. So, in order to kill Linkz, it would take 4 frickin days. 4.
So, we have a horrendous killing method, which hat said was to balance the 50% success rate janitor role (alongside the hobo who can see in "dark" games). We have an SK, which is proven again and again to take out scum members. We have confirmable townies, and a killing method which confirms even more. And a curse role that only would really affect 5 players out of 10 (the only ones with actual night roles), the bodyguard, the psych, the tracker, SK, and the hobo.
When I died, I told Hat that the game was imbalanced and we were done, my understanding coming after seeing Linkz starting to look directly at stefl and ToS. (The mafia can't kill someone who is on to them? What? It will take 3-4 days to kill him? Holy handgrenades of Antioch!)
Hat said I was stubborn and that I didn't completely understand yet what was happening, and that by day 5 something was going to change which was going to "completely throw everyone's understanding of the game upside down". I told him we wouldn't live to day 5. I was right. My team was dead by day 4, and FF's final kill was just previously aimed at stefl, which would have put notstan on the hotseat on day 4, and lynched. (instead he targeted notstan, who just so happened to get a one-time bulletproof, spoiling his kill)
Hat knew we were screwed. He gave us a backup mafia with an instant kill. I'm not saying he just invented it during game, but that "day 5 surprise" turned into a day 3 surprise, completely overturning the balance in favor of mafia. It wasn't a suprise, it was downright game-breaking. Then, despite the backup being mafia, he took away the ability for the backup to kill as a mafia after stefl died.
The game was unbalanced in favor of town, hat overcompensated, and then realizing his mistake, tried to balance it as best as possible.
Now that I think about it, the SK this game had a much higher chance for victory than the mafia. Again, what? It's only a matter of time 'til everyone is getting confirmed and we're getting slaughtered with 75% chance kills.
I'm not even going to get into wonk being a scum survivor, the win conditions for which being making it to the final day with only one non-killing role at his side.
I'm sorry, Hat, I really am. I don't mean to be a whiny bitch, and I don't mean to criticize the shit out of you (although you did admit you only spent 2 hours on the setup).
The next time I play a game that is not well thought out, and imbalanced, and well, retarded, I'm just not going to be playing here anymore. I know, I know, Boo-hoo's all around. The way I see it, you can admit there's a problem to be fixed, or you can ignore it. Either way, I going to be playing games that don't make me feel like my time and effort is being disrespected.
Also, and I'm sorry to you Heph, you played well....but Linkz is easily the MVP. His conclusions and insights were used throughout the rest of the game, in addition to the decisions for the final lynch.
