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theprof00 on 04 May 2011
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Profcrab said:
theprof00 said:

@profcrab

What is the motivation for leaving a txt message from Anon if you're not Anon? Like I said, "to frame them", is not an answer. You think he left it to lead them off the trail? In what way would that work? Anon is already a memberless group. So leaving a message saying, "anon was here lawl", doesn't point in any direction. It would make sense if the message was "Microsoft wuz here", or, "EFF wuz here", because that would actually point to someone. I feel like I'm not explaining properly how this works. Basically, the person who reads the message "anon wuz here" is going to say to themselves, "So it could be anybody". How is that leading anyone around falsely or "off the trail"?

Also, you think the CIA, wouldn't be able to figure out if a piece of evidence was planted by Sony??

Think about it. You come home and someone is dead. What's the first thing you do? Call the cops, or plant a fake letter in an attempt to clear yourself of suspicion? I know it's different, but it's not different by much.

Listen, it is not a frame as in "OMG, send all of Anonymous to jail" and it isn't evidence that stands up in court. You need to understand that there are multiple reasons to leave even a stupid note like that.

1. If you are Sony, it would be for a PR reason.  

2. If you are a cybercriminal, you would want to promote goverments and the public targeting and fearing some memberless cyberterrorist group and not the huge internet fraud market.  More efforts hunting Anonymous = less efforts hunting some douche in an Eastern Europeon country.  Even if they do some hunting for the guy there.  The public isn't thinking about it which is just fine with them because internet fraud is BIG there.  They have every reason in the world to do anything they can to not get caught.  

The last thing the reason cyber criminals want is attention because they exist because of the weak laws in the countries they are setup in.  Public attention could result in US diplomatic pressure which means bad business for them if their governments actually cooperate in a crackdown.  I'm sure the FBI knows where to hunt, but that doesn't mean the public is putting any pressure on its politicians to do anything about anything other than Anonymous.

I'm sorry if it appears that I am ignorant of such things. I'm simply ignoring the things I don't agree with or have already addressed.

1. Sony couldn't have done it because CIA and homeland security would find out about it. They certainly wouldn't use it to lie to congress either. Yes, there would be motivation to do it, but there isn't the ability to do it. Everything loaded onto the server has a "birthdate" (and to counter the other guy) an "upload" date. I can say with 100% confidence that everything this guy did, was done at the same time, within a span of minutes. Additionally, date changes can be tracked, so they're not capable of changing the date to alter the data. I'm sure you know what the penalties are for tampering witha crime scene, as well as the penalties for lying to a congressional body.

2. This is the issue I'm having with your argument; this is my problem with your logic.  You say things, but you don't explain the "how". You just say broad generalizations like, "lead them away from the actual hacker". If someone were to casually read your point, they'd say, "that makes sense". But, my problem is deeper, and it's something you've yet to address within context. That problem....that question, is, "how exactly does framing an anonymous, bodyless entity, nay, idea help the hacker not get caught".

You say, "more time spent hunting anonymous". That is like saying "more time hunting the public", or "more time hunting internet users". Anonymous is a concept, it's an idea. It's not an organized group. Anonymous IS some douche in an Eastern European country. Anonymous IS a company CEO. Anonymous is everyone and anyone. So when you make it seem like it's redirecting, you're wrong. Like I said previously, it's not like saying, "Al-jafira claims another victory against imperialists". CIA can look at Al-jafira, take the information they have on the group, and investigate using operatives. This is not the case. THAT would be leading the CIA in the wrong direction, because what is actually a tangible group with a regional presence that can be outlined, with communication pathways that can be tracked.

So, that also cannot be the case. You may argue that he is too dumb to understand that, and just did it without thinking it through. Well, I'll admit that I can't really counter that argument. A fools actions are hard to justify.

The last paragraph (which I editted to be a paragraph) makes sense, but then the question becomes, "why leave anything at all".

Look, if you're out to not get caught, and you live in one of those countries, why leave any message at all? Anonymous is anyone. Anonymous can be someone from the Netherlands, or Australia, or China, or Nicaragua. If anything, claiming Anonymous allows for a broad interpretation. It does not make it smaller. It doesn't point away from your home country. "We are anonymous, we are legion" is a saying known throughout the world in the online communities.

So, I don't really understand you point about the message being left to somehow "point away from themselves". It simply doesn't. And while I've asked before, you can't explain how it makes sense. That takes away substantially from your position.

Just be reasonable, it's easier than you think. Put yourself in their shoes. You just hacked into a mainframe with 100+M CC numbers. Do you leave a text file? If so, what do you write? (in all honesty, if you please)