Scoobes said:
You've admited to being ignorant of some of the science and some of the analogies you make really do show it. Firstly, you make a common mistake and place human ideas and values of order and creation into the world and universe around us. It's the nature of the human brain to find patterns in an attempt to make sense of the world and you interpret the world as having layers of order in areas of chaos. Furthermore, you say: No matter what mathematical evidence scientists can claim, they still do not know scientifically exactly how the universe began. They can have all sorts of models and statistics but the facts are the facts. No one observed or has evidence of the first building blocks of the universe beginning. In light of this I cannot see how anyone can believe that there is not a higher power that started life as we know it. Why should anyone believe in a higher power when there is no evidence and no mathematical models for one. On one side you have models and calculations based on data gathered from a range of different instruments, on the other you have blind faith with no questions. One method will always improve and give us more information. The other will never give anything more concrete then "God did it". Chemistry and physics also explain much of the complexity in the universe and will constantly strive to make the information more accurate. You say things work in unison, and they will.... for a while. For instance, what's the appendix for? (other than to randomly kill you). Science explains it as an artifact of our evolution and had a use at some point. Things work in unison, until they don't. You're placing order in the chaos of the human body. You say there has to be a higher being to created the universe and the laws of nature. I have to ask, why? |
Scoobes, at the start of my post I admitted that I am no doctor or have any kind of advanced degrees besides an associates. I am just trying to be honest with the board members that my life profession is not the study of the universe, or the beginnings of life. Many times in forums people speak as if they are the end all authority on everything and make people believe they are some kind of professional. However, this does not make me dumb nor does it make me ineligible in a debate. I understand you think I am dumb for my belief in a higher power according to your first post on this topic. In the same regard I personally consider it foolishness to believe there is absolutely no higher being or God in existence. I do not however believe you are dumb personally and I expect you do not think I am dumb other than my belief system. Just the fact that you have abstract thought and can make arguments for your beliefs proves that you are smart and take time to try and do research in your education endeavors.
I will first begin by replying to your argument on chaos within the human body including the issue of the appendix. you said:
Chemistry and physics also explain much of the complexity in the universe and will constantly strive to make the information more accurate. You say things work in unison, and they will.... for a while. For instance, what's the appendix for? (other than to randomly kill you). Science explains it as an artifact of our evolution and had a use at some point. Things work in unison, until they don't. You're placing order in the chaos of the human body.
For so long many medical professionals and doctors alike have been asking the question of what the appendix is even for. As we know many times this organ can become infected due to stuck bacteria and causes the need for it to be removed. Many people have been able to live happy lives without their appendix. This is true. You also gave arguments that we will know more as we learn more and use new instruments to find those new truths. Well, through studies universities and research facilities have been finding out there is evidence to support that the appendix indeed helps support the immune system. It is full of lymphoids and killer cells that support your digestive system in getting rid of bad bacteria and the like. So indeed it does have a purpose. And doctors do not always just take it out anymore but may try to administer antibiotics to save the appendix. Also remember that the body has the ability to compensate for loss of certain organs. For instance we can have a kidney taken out and the body will naturally compensate to the other kidney. That is signs for order and design in and of itself. Also the gull bladder can be removed and our amazing body will compensate for the its bile creation. But, we must not forget that all of these organs do have a purpose and are there for a reason. You may ask, "then if we can live without them, why have them?", because they help make our quality of life better. Our bodies are better off without having to compensate for these organs. If the appendix is removed the body has plenty of other sources of lymphoids and killer cells. I agree the appendix is much less important but it does assist the body's function as a whole.
You will probably think this is one of the dumbest things you have heard based on what you have already stated, but here goes: I think that science actually proves a higher being (creator) and disproves there not being a higher being. Indeed to have science you must have processed thought, logic, and evidence. You can give me all sorts of models and calculations the scientists have made but there is by no means to prove the beginning of space, time, and matter. It is impossible to prove with complete conclusion the first building block and how it was set in motion to begin the universe. So I admit no one can affirmatively prove there isnt a higher being, and no one can affirmatively prove there is a higher being. We use science and logic to make guesses about the beginning, but no one officially observed and documented it. There are more holes in the belief of atheism than theism. I have questions for you:
Where did the space for the universe come from? Where did matter come from? where did the laws of the universe come from? Where did energy come from? How is it that matter was given the properties to automatically organize itself? How did life learn to reproduce itself?
No scientist can give you a definite answer on any of these even using their models and calculations. Can you have the pieces to a pencil sharpener in a can, shake up the can, throw it into the air and then it automatically establish order and become a pencil sharpener? no. No matter where you see chaos present in our universe there is also order to keep it all together. There is in fact laws in place. Can dead matter create the laws of the universe? For that matter what made the dead matter? the huge holes are an endless cycle. I argue a higher being is in the realm of science, because the order of the universe and everywhere proves it. What was it that established the law of gravitational pull so that our planet would be able to revolve around our star? For all planets to orbit their home star?
I conclude that you cannot view the universe and not see some form of established order in place. Tell me how you could explain this.
