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Allfreedom99 on 03 May 2011
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GameOver22 said:
Allfreedom99 said:

Saphi snake, I am no doctor, physicist, molecular engineer, or any other professions that would make anyone think I am qualified to debate complex theories or belief systems. I admit Im a normal guy with an associates degree. So if certain things I say sound as though I misunderstand something then let that be what it is. The entire argument of observing something to believe it is that you yourself have to be there, or see PHYSICAL evidence of such an event taking place. Were you there to see the beginning of our universe? was anyone? I dont know your views on the big bang theory. I gather that you believe its part of the explanation since you do not believe in a higher being. If you can observe that a hammer is made by man then how can you not observe the earth, universe, and people and not gather that it was made by a higher being (God). There are a set of rules that are always present upon our earth. The law of gravity is one of them. Where did the law of gravity come from? did it just evolve out of certain mathematically combinations and possibilities? The law of gravity is present. It is evident that gravity was designed and created. It takes a force and knowledge to create something. So show me the proof that shows where that first particle of the building blocks of life began. Do you have a link or a book to read that was written by someone? If you believe things by observation then show me by observation of how exactly everything began.

I observe that there is gravity. I observe that there are humans and animals alive with complex organs that naturally work together. I observe that there is a vast universe and in that universe there are laws. In the same way I look at a hammer and can see the evidence that it was made by man. (or a machine, but that machine was made by man no doubt.).

The claim that you have to observe something to believe it is a very strict requirement for knowledge. Some scientists might say it in the heat of the moment, but they would not maintain this once you start questioning them. To take the big bang as an example, no scientists would really argue that we directly observed the big bang. The allure of the theory comes from the fact that: 1.) The mathematics agree with it happening- the big bang can be derived from Einstein's general relativity. 2.) Current observations agree with the big-bang theory (expansion of the universe and universal background radiation).

I was actually not promoting the notion that you one has to observe something to believe it. We have a brain that can process certain information. That information can give us evidence of the existence of a certain object or event. This does not require direct observation. I was simply debating that fact that Vlad321 was arguing that they will only believe what they can observe. No matter what mathematical evidence scientists can claim, they still do not know scientifically exactly how the universe began. They can have all sorts of models and statistics but the facts are the facts. No one observed or has evidence of the first building blocks of the universe beginning. In light of this I cannot see how anyone can believe that there is not a higher power that started life as we know it. For this higher power to create such things as our complex bodies, time, space, ect it would have to be an all powerful being to do such things. Anyone on this earth can observe that everything works in unison. Our organs are mechanisms that perform tasks. Where did the laws come from that directed our organs to function and life to begin? Something cannot be set into motion unless something sets it into motion.

Say that in the beginning of time and space there was nothing but a tennis ball. Can that tennis ball alone move itself and begin creating the universe? No. Therefore those that claim there is no God (higher being) are fooling themselves. You cannot have a universe begin just by a particle of dust that has no knowledge. A higher being with limitless knowledge and power could set in motion what we know as the universe today. In order to create life and the laws of nature there must have been a knowledgeable being that caused these things to come about.