Lots of bashing for the belief of God....

[Troll_Whisperer]

r505Matt said:

Troll_Whisperer said:

Religion is an ideology, it can be discussed, unlike race. What's there to say about skin colour? Not much. Ideology is a choice, that can be right or wrong, so it is normal it sparks debate, as we have seen in this thread. Religion is not untouchable, of course it's not the same arguing against religion and arguing against race. And religious people bash atheists all the time, too.

Personally, I don't participate in these debates usually, because there is no end. I don't care if someone is religious of not unless it affects me directly somehow. I respect it and expect respect, that's it.

There really is no end to these debates, and that's why I've avoided them for a few years, but I just want to mention one thing. Your first paragraph is mostly correct. If you talk about Muslims or Christians, yes, it is true. But this doesn't apply to Orthodox Jews (and maybe non-Orthodox Jews too, I'm not sure). Of the pracitcing Orthodox Jews I know, religion and race are the same thing. Maybe better put, when an Orthodox Jew says he/she is Jewish, he/she is not only commenting on religion, but also race. If you ask them about what they believe, you will hear a term "The Jewish people" often. It's not a reference to their religion but their ancestry and heritage. So while other religions are separate from race, not all of them are. Orthodox Judaism is the only one I know enough about to comment on though, and even then, I know very little.

Not that wikipedia is the best source, but I'll link the first couple sentences.

The Jews, also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation.[6][7][8] Converts to Judaism, whose status as Jews within the Jewish ethnos is equal to those born into it, have been absorbed into the Jewish people throughout the millennia.

Even though the Jewish people are very tolerant and accepting of converts, they still aren't truly considered the same. Ethnoreligious group is the proper term though. I went on about this longer than I thought I would, but I thought it was worth noting.

Sure, you're right. But it's just a case of having the same name for an ethnicity and a religion. You could be ethnically Jewish but still be an atheist, or follow Judaism but be black. The relation between them is manmade. Thanks for your input, anyway.