What Religion Do You Follow?

[sapphi_snake]

@pizzahut451:

Look, I get it you hate Christians because they dont share the same belief as you.

No, I just don't like their beliefs.

I was arguing if they were opresive or not, and MAJORITY of christians wasnt allowed to think freely or they would get persecuted. The best example is Martin Luther. He saw the sins and evil of the church and the church haunted him. So it was either obey the church or die I, sorry, but to say everyone listedn to them is dumb.

Can you present evidence that the vast majority didn't listen and believe whatever the Church told them? Oh, and nice of you to admit that Chrisitanity doesn't encouarage thinking (you said it first ).

No, not everyone listend to them. Just the fact that only catholic church was doing that proves so.

The Catholic Church represented 60-70% of Christendom at that time.

The opressing christians in middle ages were in small minority and unfourtenatly they just happend to be the powerfull ones.

Most people did listen to the ones who were powerful. If people had not listened to them, they wouldn't have been able to persecute anyone.

How about the lutherans?

I know the protestant religions weren't that much tolerant, though I don't know much about them.

The eastern orthodox christians?

Don't know about the Eastern Orthodox Church in other countries, but the Romanian Eastern Orthodox Chruch is the most backwards bigoted institution over here. It promoted slavery, it was the main owner of slaves (gypsies), and was the chief opponent to end slavery up 'till 1854. It also colaborated with the Communist authorities, leading to the encarceration, torture and death of many, and was also the chief opponent to the decriminalisation of homosexual relationships.

You are choosing the worst of christians to prove how bad christianity is

I'm actually using the avarege Christian I believe.

As for muslim and christian relations, i suggest you get little les biased and learn about, for example, ottoman empire (the biggst muslim empire). Yes, they sure treated christians kindly... My country spend most of its history fighting them off and the casualties ottomans brought to Christians is enormous.

That was war. People die in war. My country was under Ottoman rule too. THe Hungarians who were Christians persecuted Romanians far worse then the Ottomans. The Ottomans also didn;t try to forcefully convert the Romanians to Islam, while the Hungarians did try to forcefully convert the Romanians from Transilvania to Catholicism. And we were talking about the Moors, not the Ottomans.

Or how about the Armenian genocide where Turks killed hundreds of thousands of Armenians (who are christians btw)?

Christians wiped out MILLIONS of people in the Americans in the name of spreading their religion. Whole populations with their culture destroyed, forcing the survivors to worship... I'm not gonna say this or else I may get banned.

But God forbid you say anything about uslims, because you know...they can bomb you. But you can sure attack those ''opresive'' christians who keep tolerating your hatred towards you.

I don't particularly think Muslims are any better than Chrisitans, and modern day muslims are inferior to the Muslims who lived in Spain and had one of the most advanced and progresive states at the time (you wouldn't even know you were in the Middle Ages). I just don't like it when Chrisitans demonstrate hipocrisy. Your religion is just as "bad" as theirs.

And my country's constitution protects my right to hold whatever religious beleifs I want, and to say whatever I want. Constitution and Human Rights >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any religion.

As for Jews, they were on the side of Muslims when Muslims attacked the Holy Land and when they defended  Jerusalim against crusaders in 1099 (and failed lol). Not to ention their attack at Hispania in 8th century... Dont worry, Im sure you'll find an excuse why did those muslims did that and why it was ok.

Doesn't surprise me that they did that. They choose the more benevolent side.

Actually, religion can only be judged by the message its trying to deliver. And the message and teachings of Jesus Christ the most important person in Christianity were both peacefull and right. How did the small minority of corrupted people used those teachings over 500 years ago doesnt chnage the morallity of Christian message and teachings at all.

The message can be interpreted and reinterpreted ad nauseaum. In the end, it all comes down to how it's interpreted, and how people act. You can be sure that all the attorcitites Christians have commited were fully supported by Scriptures (as interpreted by the poeple who commited the attrocitites).

So WHAT RIGHT DID THE MUSLIMS HAD TO INVADE A KINGDOM WHERE CHRISTIANS ARE A MAJORITY?

What right did the slavs have to invade Roman provinces?

And FYI, the muslims were majority in Hispania because the land was conquerd by muslims. It was nothing strange that when your land is conquerd by another religion you convert to it, either by your own will of by violence. Muslims conquerd the land, killed christians  and  converted some christians to Islam, so of course there were more muslims there. And while some people were allowed to keep their religion, all non muslims were treated as second class citizens and were forced to live under islamic law. So it was either be a muslim or be treated like shit under islamic laws.

If you knew anything about Islam, you'd know that Christians were treated much better than a Muslim would be treated by Christians. And you're wrong. If that would've been the case than the Balkans would be 100% muslim, but that's obviously not the case. In Spain people converted to Islam because they found it to be a better religion, not because they were forced. Chrisitans operated differently (genocide, ethnic cleansing, focing people to convert etc.), so it's clear who was the more "humane" religion.

And christians had much more rights to those lands that muslim invaders because the land beloged to them before the muslims took it away. You'd think something simple as that would be obvious.

The population who lost those lands no longer existed. When you're no longer on a land you no longer have any right to it (as opposed to the populations under Ottoman rule who never left their lands).

It doesnt say anything about christian ethnic cleansing of muslims nor about forcing christianity on them. Just as I thought you made that up to make Christianity look bad and win in this long lost argument. I have provided lots of links in this debate all that disporve you on the reconquista debate, unlike you. You have provided absoulety nothing to support your claim, at least nothing we were talking about.

You disgust me. You can't even look at your link right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconquista#Conversions_and_Expulsions

This was in the very same article you linked, but obviously you ignored it because it confirmed what I said. And if you bothered to watch the documentary I reccomended maybe you'd learn somethin about this too.

It doesnt matter? You said Christian europeans were uncivilized i said europe is the most advanced continent on planet and PROVIDED A LINK THAT SUPPORTS MY CLAIM. You on the other hand didnt even do that. tell me something where were the most important inventions in the world invented again? Was it in europe or ...? Also the only islamic rule by 14th century that existed in europe was Ottoman Empire ... and they were VERY VERY backwards in comprassion with Europe. But it doesnt matter, to say that christian europeans were uncivillized and is just plain wrong and hstory proves so (as well as link I posted)

You said IS, and I agreed with that. You said WAS, and I disagreed. We're talking about the Middle Ages here. The Middle Ages officially ended in the 15th century. All you gave was a link of names of great Europeans, non of which lived during the time we're talking about. And most of the first great European minds of the Reneissance were greatly inspired by the knowledge that came from Muslim Spain, the only civilized European state of the Middle Ages. I reccomened a documentary about that. You have not (and can not) gove any evidence to support that Europe was the most advanced region during the Middle Ages (Islam and China say hi ), a period where Christian Europeans didn't care for education, or even hygene.

This is the last post I will write to you. You have shown to be ignorant, manipulative, and lacking knowledge regarding history. You can reply if you want, but I do no care. I will no logner waste any time wtih you.