Badassbab said:
Your pretty confusing with some of your statements. Let's try and stay on topic and not romanticise peoples plight with fanciful quotes. 1. Yes I acknowledge the Middle East has been in turmoil long before US involvement. This was evident in my previous post. 2. Not sure why your bringing up the barbary pirates? I'm sure Turkish nationalists would say (enter any empire here) was a leech on the world as they can't see their own crimes. See what I'm getting at? 3. I'm not telling you to not speak to your family. I am arguing you and your antiquated imperialist attitude towards the rest of the world and I argue such attitudes which are prevelent at the highest levels of our Governments contravene human rights, justice, fraternity, liberty, democracy and all these things which we over here at least in some measure take for granted. 4. I mentioned Suharto the genocidal billionaire dictator responsible for the deaths of hundres of thousands of so called 'communists' and East Timorese. All this done in your name to protect your freedom in some fantasy universe conjured up in the White House and Pentagon 5. The Egyptian Military doesn't need a $1 billion a year to defend itself against the the unarmed Muslim Brotherhood or terrorists. There are much smarter and cost effective ways to fight terrorism such as introducing democratic reform, eradicating poverty, education and good old fashion police/detective/intelligence work. The whole world needs to demilitarise unfortunately the West, Russia and Israel are arming themselves and everyone else to the teeth. We as a world spend more than 10 times as much on killing machines then on aid. 6. The war criminal Kissanger and his model of tricentralism (if it exists at all) is clearly not at work. The US dominated NATO expanded it's borders further East. The US seeks dominance, not a multi polar world. This is obvious in any circles. But it is suffering serious strategic and tactical set backs which is also evident the question is for how long or is it permanent? |
Only a person who was romanticizing would use the word romanticize.
1. You didn't make that concession clear enough, my point was simple, even when they were the Ottoman they didn't contribute a single thing, they expanded in all directions and just about all of the credited achievements were the achievements of conquered peoples converted to Islam or were already in effect by those people before they were conquered. Hence why it's correct to use the word leech.
2. I don't know why you separated one and two but that isn't the point. Your right and the Turks could say the Dish did in fact run away with the spoon, doesn't make any of it fact. I could write a 500 page book on western accomplishments and the benefit they have been to man-kind.
3."You need to stop thinking as if" I mean do you really need a 3rd party to show you that your lying at this point? The rest of your callithump for this section will be ignored only because yet again you split the same topic up.
4. Oh, sorry didn't notice - once I see folks piling on the list of so called atrocities I skip over to the next paragraph. Believe it or not I've had all the atrocities listed for me, there is a book on it actually, the name slips my mind now. It's of all the wrong things the US has done.
4.1 - On East Timor I'll copy paste an old response I wrote on this arguing point:
"...that discourse from an American perspective about the deaths of those at 9/11 the immensity of the pain of hearing about the mass beheading of women in Iraq under Saddam Hussein has met the Left seemingly bereft of use with nothing to say. Then reminded that the left is the side that claims to have their finger on the pulse of humanity through logos, pathos and ethos and would have an answer to how we should react. Instead I'm slammed back by you on as an example of a leftist argument "well, what about East Timur?". These people attacked our culture, our secularism, our pluralism, attacked everything that we hold dear as far as our multicultural ethics. The indiscriminate attacks cost hundreds of Muslims their lives as well hundreds of people from every other nationality. With all of these things being as clear as day you would say "Well, what about East Timor?" or in another case "Well, what about Bosnia?" or in another case "Well about the Shah?" or in another case "Well what about the Atomic Bomb?"
When the planned genocide recorded and planned genocide of women in Iraq through mass beheading was known how did the left react?
'Well we have to wait and see because it's not clear.'
Wait and see for what? It's more than sniveling or cowardice those caitiffs are down right disgusting to try and evade an issue like that and will only work to summon historical censure.
It would appear to me such evasiveness can only mean one thing, the person evading wants to pretend the issue never came up. They are just looking to fill the status quo.
If the zeitgeist of the left is to craft an egalitarian society then with the evidence as it is presented to this date gauging it's value then if the left was for whole sale I'd equally afford piss in a cup.
Well, what about East Timor, I think now more than ever since I've had a bit of Scotch and the internet at my finger tips I can attack this rotten tool. Did you know that item 3 of the Bin Laden manifesto has to deal with East Timor? Well time line is important here, the west had acknowledged East Timor’s independence in 1999 or some such, Bin Laden wrote his Manifesto after that and the third item deals with the west reversing it's position with East Timor. In other words undoing the ending of the Indonesian genocide, it's recognition with the UN and it's first election. Bin Laden said for this he will never forgive the west for taking Muslim land. The people of East Timor are Christian by the way have been since it was a Portuguese colony. By then Islam hadn't even become dominant in Indonesia until the 1600s where Christianity had already spread to that region at around 1300 to 1500 at the latest. (I couldn't find any sources on the date it became dominant.)But Christianity was there before the Portuguese.
East Timor as it turns out is one of the top 3 reasons Bin Laden decided to use civilian air crafts to kill more civilians. So again, what about East Timor?"
I think here's where I should use my Hitch quote again. But by now I would hope you have seen how far those termites have come for you to hold your position as a proper construct.
5. Oh, boy I said to protect it's sovereignty, you assume I speak only of the Islamic Brother Hood at this point your putting up strawmen either I believe a concession is in order here. You did it in (1) do it in 4. (Unless you honestly believe Egypt doesn't need an equipped standing Army and hasn't needed one for the last 20 years.)
6. Tri-centralism is a word from Noam used to describe Kissengers methods it's more common to call it Trilateralism, it's the best way to describe it I think. But since the Soviets are gone Kissingers model is out the window. Those termites have really fed well I see, if your that type you can respond in whatever insulting way you want to, I won't respond at this point I don't think there is much else to say.
Actually, the US already had established itself and monopolized the oil through ARAMCO before 1976. But it isn't so black and white. Anyway good night.
I'm Unamerica and you can too.
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