PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:
PhoenixKing said:
mrstickball said:
nightsurge said:
mrstickball said:
PhoenixKing said:
YOU are living in a childhood fantasy crafted by movies and patriotic ramblings.
Military fighting isn't 'good vs bad'- light vs dark star wars BS.
It's going into peoples homes, forcing information from them, bombing innocent civilian areas because of enemy bases nearby or because that's how they get their food, it's killing children should you be ordered to do so, and it's sick and wrong.
These aren't 'over-dramatized isolated incidents'. They're fact. They happen all the time in wars. Civilians are the FIRST objective to be attacked so they don't join the opposing army or provide food for them.
Nazi's taking over the world? Nazi's had no chance of doing that because they were fighting a 2 front war and Russia was on our side.
Honor in dying? No such thing. Your wife would grieve for your death, no? Wouldn't she feel guilty about it?
Look at Abraham Lincoln, when he was killed, his wife went crazy and was sent to a mental institution because she thought anyone emotionally close to her would die (Her husband died after she lost 3 sons in the war).
Want to know why schools don't tell you this? Because NO ONE wants fresh and able-bodied military resources to be anything but happy about partaking in war.
Also, to put it in the most simplest terms, since I'm sure most of you don't believe me.
War's definition: Organized Murder.
That's it. That's all. It's no different than gangs killing people. You just wear an honorary uniform to do it.
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Just curious, but do you think war against Hitler was justified? What about Pol Pot, or Imperial Japan?
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Give it up, mrstickball. This kid is delusional as they come. I love how he preaches to us more mature and older individuals about living in a fantasy created by movies when he himself is the one seemingly living in a fantasy and not fully understanding many of these complex topics.
I know I have kept out of commenting on the actual war topics, but I must say his comment about "killing civilians is the first thing to do so they won't join up" is the absolute worst logic ever and completely false. Sure some idiotic crazy war pirates and terrorists will do this, but if your goal is actually to win a war you want the citizens to like you as an invading force or to at least tolerate you, not hate you. If you go off killing civilians left and right the only thing that will do is inspire civilians further to stand against you.
Now please, you are obviously only 18 and being overrun with information from many sources that are not always credible. Take the advice of all of us on here and chill out.
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I mean, I can understand his distain of what war is. War is hell. War is vile. The worst atrocities of humanity are usually in and around wars. Yet at the same time, some wars have purged us from evils that did their deeds in the shadows, only finding out the horrors once war was ended.
Atrocities are atrocities, but to say that all war is bad, to me, begs to justify regimes and perpetrators of the worst kinds of crimes - the ones that go unpunished. Americans have done some bastardly things in wars, but they pale in comparison to the things done by others in wars, and before wars were perpetrated.
If you read a lot of stuff about war, you have a healthy respect for what it does, and what it accomplishes in the face of pure evil. If it were not for intervention in some of the worst conflicts of humanity, they would of continued unchecked, and lay hidden in the dark, for us to never know the evils that were perpetrated behind 'peace'.
When you look at some of the war atrocities - the Rape of Nanking, Katyn Forest, the Soviet Occupation of post-war Germany, Pol Pot's post-war Cambodian regime, and dozens of others, you understand that, in very rare instances, war and the atrocities thereof are the lesser of two evils. I could not imagine a world to where we did not fight the Nazis, the or the North Koreans and Chinese. Instances like that are why I cannot always stomach pacificsm, because it seeks a world that does not exist - a world where no one is abused or hurt. Sadly, that is not the reality in a lot of places. God forgive us when North Korea collapses, and we find out what really went on while we were sitting in our warm houses, playing on the internet, and watching TV instead of engaging such a vile regime.
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Why did Nazi Germany come to surface? Because of war reparations forced upon Germany after World war 1 compounded with the Great Depression.
Why did Pol Pot eradicate 2 million Cambodians who were on the Pro-American side? Because America's bomb campaign in Cambodia hit the wrong towns and killed millions of innocent civilians during the war.
Why did the war against Korea end in a neutrality with it being divded in the middle? Because America kept going further up and China had warned us that it felt threatened during the time we were winning the war.
War creates more war and genocides. These events WERE impacted because of American military action, though in the case of WW2, it was due to French and British politics of desiring to embarass Germany backed by combined military might.
You think I'm a delusional kid? You both haven't even made an argument against anything I've said. The other dude is just condescending and arrogant so I won't even respond to his childish rants.
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You never answered my question:
Do you believe that the actions of Hitler, Pol Pot, Imperial Japan, and such should of continued unabated? I understand your points, but you didn't answer my question.
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Hitler wouldn't have taken over had America never even bothered to step in. He was doomed the moment he betrayed the USSR. The Eastern Front was simply a battle he couldn't win. America going in was technically irrelevant on Hitler's end although, admittedly, it would have happened anyway since that idiot declared war on America only a few days after Pearl Harbor.
Imperial Japan would have been taken down by Russia, period. Japan was just a sad situation because their child of an emperor had no control over what his board did.
Pol Pot did what he did because he was convinced America was 'evil' and that all 'western influenced' Cambodians were evil. America's illegal bombing campaign by Nixon was one of the major factors in why Cambodians united under Pol Pot. Not ONLY that, but you're ignoring the fact that America supported a Dictatorship of Lon Nol, who was a corrupt and vile tyrant himself, against Pol Pot's communism. Were you even aware of this? America was NOT supporting the establishment of a democracy in Cambodia.
America simply shouldn't be involved in these affairs. It's actions were a catalyst to the tragedies that occurred and usually cause more problems while wasting millions.
Just look at the American Civil war, it created the KKK, the black codes, and other Jim Crow laws that kept Blacks surpressed from having equal rights. What ended this terrible system? Non-violent civil disobediance.
People should learn: War is NEVER the answer.
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