Gaming as an art form.

[SamuelRSmith]

Bodhesatva said:

SamuelRSmith said:

Bodhesatva said:

SamuelRSmith said:

Bodhesatva said:

Given the lengthy discussion about what "art" is in this thread, I suggest we all drop that avenue. It's a semantic dead end that will absolutely never be resolved.

Instead, I think we should all say this: video games are capable of being intelligent, provocative, edifying and sophisticated. I'm not sure that makes games art, but I hope it's really those qualities we're after, not the actual "art" label.

To a certain extent, I do agree with you.

But can you say, that in 50 years, when gaming has developed beyond what think is imaginable now. Possibly
when game designers are striving to be as far away from photorealism as possible. And anything that they
want to happen, can happen. That gaming still wouldn't be considered an art.

By then, gaming would have developed so much. There will be languages and techniques used to develop
stories and convey emotions, that other mediums wouldn't be able to use thanks to their lack of inteactvity.

Also, for gaming to be worldly recognised as an art form, it'd need recognition from the vast majority. It means
that the game industry will need to grow, as well as develop, before it can be considered an art form.

But this is precisely the sort of discussion I'm trying to avoid: how can we have reasonable, conclusive discussions about how this medium will look in 50 years? Good lord, we have big fights over what it will look like in five. What will the PS4 do? Will the Wii2 have PS3 level graphics? No one can decide. 50 years in the future is so open to possibility that it's really impossible to do much more than dream.

As a counterpoint, I could absolutely imagine video games evolving as a sport and an entertainment medium, and never as an art form. It's already being used as a sport, and I don't think we have any "sport" that is also "art" simultaneously. Again, not saying that will necessarily be the case -- just pointing out that anything is really possible that far down the line.

Could you imagine a time when games could both be sport and entertainment, and as an art form.

What about dance? That is a sport, and yet there are branches of dance that are considered to be art.

I believe you missed my point: I said that I could imagine that in my post (I said that "this won't necessarily be the case," implying that games could, in fact, be both a sport and art simultaneously). My point was, instead, that video games could evolve in enumerable ways, and imagining that far into the future is effectively impossible, when we can't even agree on what's likely to happen in a few years.

I'm trying to steer the discussion away from "what is art?" but you keep pulling it back towards that. Let's just agree that games can be intelligent and sophisticated, and move on.  

I did miss your point, sorry. I was being too hasty in my responses.

Let's try and steer the course a little bit, and take example from a great game that supports my point.

Portal.

This is a game that is enjoyed by many, and it enjoyed on many different levels (it is also intelligent and sophisticated). Portal tells a story through the narration of GLaDOS, and creates a back story through the use of graffiti.

But how many players, who played the game through hearing about it at work, actually picked up on more
than the main story? The audience are used to narration telling a story, as narration has been used for many years in films to describe the plot. Graffiti is very rarely used to tell a story (in fact, I can't think of a single example) and I don't think many players picked up on it the first time around. Actually, the only reason I got to learn about the graffiti telling a backstory was through the developer commentary.

I had completed the game twice before enabling the dev com, and each time with a different player. Both of
these players consider themselves gamers, and neither of them picked up on the backstory.

Perhaps, if games use graffiti more in games, more people will learn that it adds to the story. It would also
mean that games have started to develop their own language, which are used more than to just aid the
player, but also tell the story.

The growing industry, and the development of gamings own devices to tell stories will be what defines video
gaming as an art form. However, what I'd like to believe that would happen is that other games would also
just stick down the 'fun' route, a la Nintendo games. Just to keep the industry balanced and enjoyable for
everyone.