The FairTax, Join in!

[Eomund]

Final-Fan said:

Andir said:

Final-Fan said:

 

This thread has touched on a couple other subjects but always returned to the issue at hand. I've made small comments on those (which Eomund actually brought up in the first place by the way).

[edit: posted this before I saw that Greer was leaving the thread. Please pretend that the following is directed at Eomund.]

Ah, so [edit: are you] saying that people are calling "cost of compliance" a "hidden tax"[?] First of all, I would have to see the evidence that it actually amounts to 22%, and to know what precisely it is 22% of, and especially see whether the 22% of (whatever) is equal to 23% of (the tax-inclusive price of all new retail sales in the U.S.*) AKA 30% of all new retail sales in the U.S.*

Then I would like to know how much the cost of compliance for the FairTax will be, and if you say "Zero" I will LOL. Don't forget the cost of administering the prebate system as well.

*Including, as I recall, houses; rent; mortgages and other debt/interest payments; medical bills; gas; and all sorts of interesting things.

I already posted one source for this 22% number:

"In 2005 individuals, businesses and non-profits will spend an estimated 6 billion hours complying with the federal income tax code, with an estimated compliance cost of over $265.1 billion. This amounts to imposing a 22-cent tax compliance surcharge for every dollar the income tax system collects. Projections show that by 2015 the compliance cost will grow to $482.7 billion." - www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr138.pdf

That $482.7 billion split between the 300,000,000 people in the US would amount to $1625 per person. Of course, businesses, accountants and taxlawyers make up a huge chunk of this.

I have a feeling that with everyone one of your posts you will never be happy until someone creates a 300,000,000 page document detailing how much every person in America will be saving and or spending with the new tax vs the old. Even then, you will still be unhappy as it will probably come from someone who is pro "Fair Tax". I've obtained one piece of information from this thread. You will never be happy with any explaination, and will do no leg work on your own to find answers to the questions you have. You want to be spoon fed a number that you think is good and only then you will be happy.

Yes, thank you for the reminder is on what the 22% figure is. I kinda thought someone had mentioned that, but I had to leave work and forgot to check it when I got home. For the moment I will assume the number quoted is true, though I reserve the right to investigate this number further. That is 22% of the INCOME TAX revenues of the U.S. So Eomund's assertion (or rather the statement I ask Eomund if he was trying to say) that the FairTax, which is supposed to be a revenue-neutral replacement for the income tax (or a revenue-neutral replacement for all current taxes?) is actually equal to 22% of the income tax revenue is a logical/mathematical contradiction. If X is equal to Y, then X cannot also equal 22% of Y. (That is, if X and Y are nonzero, which taxes are.) As for the rest, claiming that no amount of evidence will satisfy me seems to be a very convenient reason for declining to provide any evidence at all.

 WHAT? I never said that the FairTax will only equal 22% of income taxes. 

The 22% of the embedded taxes are business taxes we pay for every item. This is not including income taxes at all.  The FairTax rate of 23% will effectively replace all income taxes and corporate taxes. The confusion I believe you are having is when you rip out the corporate taxes you have been thinking that I am including the taxes on the paystub of every paycheck of every employee. This is simply not the case. The price of goods needs to be related to the 22% embedded current tax VS. the 23% FairTax, and that is all that comparison is good for. 

What the 23% FairTax collects will be equal to the entire current tax system.

Does the FairTax rate need to be much higher to be revenue neutral?

The proper tax rate has been carefully worked out; 23 percent does the job of: (1) raising the same amount of federal funds as are raised by the current system, (2) paying the universal rebate, and (3) paying the collection fees to retailers and state governments. Unlike some other proposals, this rate has been independently confirmed by several different, nonpartisan institutions across the country. Detailed calculations are available from FairTax.org.

(source: http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers#6)

Again I understand this is from American's for Fair Taxation, but just accept it for now.