Pope says condoms are sort of alright

[marciosmg]

highwaystar101 said:

neerdowell said:

highwaystar101 said:

The Vatican's view on on condoms has always made me feel a little sick.

Quite frankly, 1.5 million people in sub saharan Africa die every years from AIDS/HIV and the reason is largely down to the Vatican. Millions are at risk due to their views on contraceptives and the propaganda they've spread throughout sub saharan Africa.

It's sickening.

It's sad that the Vatican favours their scriptures over human life. They know condoms are a proven method of containing the spread of AIDS, and yet they still outright lie to their followers, even when they're dying in their millions.

It's a step in the right direction to say that condoms could be used to stop infection. But until they act on it and promote the use of condoms as an effective way to stop AIDS, and show some positive results from it, I'll kick up a fuss.

The church (in general) needs more forward thinking leaders like Bishop Desmond Tutu, and less fanatical leaders endangering the lives of their followers like the pope.

You know what else prevents the spread of AIDS, abstinence. In fact, it's the only 100% method of prevention (barring accidental exposure/drug use). Now I couldn't care less about the AIDS epidemic, however, people need to quit trying to blame a system that is entirely irrelevant and face up to their own contributions to their issues. The Catholic church may have issues, and the non-support of contraception may be one of them (i'm not going to take a stance either way since it doesn't concern me), however, it is unrelated to the spread of AIDS.

If they were following the teachings of the church then they wouldn't be having sex outside of marriage, and if they married a carrier of HIV and had sex with them, well that's their own stupidity. Now if they married them not knowing they had HIV, that's not something the church's teachings really account for, and that still wouldn't be solved by the use of contraception. Also, what type of husband would have sex with their wife knowing they could put them at risk for HIV; how is that a practice of love?

Now as far as being realistic and facing the realization that people are going to be promiscuous, well then, that's still on them. The church didn't put a gun to their head and force them to make the decisions which led to their exposure; in fact, it does everything it can to promote the only form on control that actually works.

P.S. Way to take a statement out of it's context to further support your own views.

People should have the right to have sex, whether it be recreational or for procreation. If people choose to have recreational sex then you should not pressure them into not using a condom, which is what the Cathoilic church has done (they didn't put a gun to their head, but they put a lot of pressure on them). That's just going to cause a whole host of problems. Condoms may not be 100% effective, but they are damn close. They are a very effective form of prevention, especially for those who choose to have recreational sex.

If the Catholic church wants to say "Yeah, we support condoms as a method of AIDs prevention, but we favour abstinence" then that would be fine. But they haven't done that, they've gone out of their way to spread the lie that condoms actually make the situation worse, which isn't the case.

If people want to promote abstinence, fine, the more the merrier; but don't bring the anti-condom propaganda with it, that's just going to make the situation a whole lot worse.

 

Also, what statement did I take out of context if I may ask?

I dont get your arguments.

The Church teaches a moral position. It cant force you to do it.

You say they pressure people. Are you saying that a group (in this case, The Church) should shut up about what they truly believe in because the other side is too weak to think for themselves?

Shouldnt the other side be more like you and do what they want?

Also, the church doesnt say - Dont use condoms. That is part of the message. It says to have sex only when married ( and with whom you married to ) and not use condoms.

If anyone decides to have sex, why would they listen to the Church about condoms?

One more argument - Do you really believe the rate of AIDS infection is so high because there are genuine catholics out there who want to be a virgin till marriage but somehow falter and do it?

Or because there is a large group of people who have sex frequently and with multiple partners and for a variety of reasons (alcohol, drugs, stupidity) dont use one?

And lastly, Catholicism is not the biggest religion in Africa.

Look at this pic (got it in wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country)

You can clearly see that only a handful of countries have a majority of catholics in their population. How could the Church pressure, as you say, all of these African countries if its not the majority in most of them?

I hope I made myself understood. Im kinda tired now so I dont know if what I wrote is coherent enough.

I usually dont enter these threads, but this thing you said I hear from a lot of people. So, I hope we can have a nice discussion about it.