Canada kicks racist butt!

[Kasz216]

Joelcool7 said:

Kasz216 said:

Joelcool7 said:

Kasz216 said:

Joelcool7 said:

Kasz216 said:

 

Bowling from Columbine?  Hell no.

I'm using the official US and Candaian hate crimes laws.   As for regular crimes.  Was just a guess.

You are saying hate crimes are ALWAYS worse while ignoring things like serial killers... whose crimes aren't based on hate.

That's what hate crime legislation does.  It makes people who intentionally stab someone less guilty then other people who intentionally stab someone, because of the reason they did so.

It makes someone who stabs someone for fun.... less guilty then someone who stabs someone for fun, because they were of a different race.

If that's not your arguement I don't get why you replied to me in the first place.

Laws, i meant about your 10% stat you quoted, if that didn't come from Bowling For Columbine. Where did it come from? I'd like to see a source that gives actual stats like that on hate crimes commited in Canada compared to the US or even crimes in general.

Now we are switching the question. You said thief who stabbed people, then you said theif that killed someone for money. Now your saying serial killer. A racist who kills a half dozen people is a serial killer and is just as bad as any other serial killer. The crime is just as bad but why did the other man kill several people? Was it a mental illness?, was it psychological? Was it a hate crime?

Example several serial Killers go around killing prostitutes because they hate them for what they are doing. Here in BC we had Pickton a serial killer who would pick up prostitutes and mutilate their bodies then feed their bodies to his pigs. Was he as bad as a racist serial killer, yah. Why was he killing? Out of hate and other sick fetishes and reasons.

What is the motives behind the serial killer, its not like you just go around killing people for no reason? its almost always hate or psychological.

I won't say all serial killers are nescessarily better then racist serial killers. Because thats not the question I origionally answered and that is not my opinion. Just because I think a hate crime like stabbing someone or burning a cross on someones lawn or attacking someone is worse then someone who does it for non hate purposes. Does not mean I think any murderer is better or worse then another murderer. Their are several motives behind murder and none of them are better or worse then one another.

Geez stop trying to exagerate what I say. Also you keep changing your question as I pointed out. Each time getting more drastic and changing the basis of the question.

If someone robs a man because their black is it worse then someone robbing a man because he's poor? (Yes)

If someone accidently stabs a man in a botched robbery is it better then someone who hunts down a black man and stabs him over his skin colour. (Yes)

If someone accidently kills a man in a botched robbery is he better then someone who kills a man intentionally because of skin colour. (Yes)

If someone kills multiple people in robberies is he better then someone who kills multiple people over race/sexual orientation. (Well I said that nobody kills mutliple people in botched robberies) So the question you clarify changing your question yet again is. Is a serial killer who intentionally goes around killing people any better or worse then a serial killer who goes around killing based on skin colour?

Answer - That is entirely different then robbery. The motive in both is a sick and twisted hateful or psychological motive. Both intend to kill and as such both are commiting the exact same crime. Their is no accident both set out to kill multiple people and as such both are equally psychotic and dangerous.

Happy now. I've answered every one of your questions in all their revisions and forms. Now why don't you stop trying to stuff my ideology into a stereotypically black and white answer and actually read my opinions. I bet Sapphy has similiar views and if you choose to ask him his answers and he chooses to answer you and debate then that is his choice.

But please don't go attacking people who aren't present to defend themselves or debate with you. Its just immature and wrong.

Actually, I was just providing more information that proved your points wrong.  You know, that's why each new post had new information.

As for the hate crime statistics... I looked up a news article on hate crimes in Canada in 2008.   Then compaired it with the 2008 stats compiled by the Derpatment of Justice.  It was roughly 1,000 vs roughly 10,000.

Someone stabbing someone accidentally is not even the same crime as intentionally stabbing someone is not even the same crime.  Not in the US anyway.

 

The question is... and I'll restate it again.

If two people comit the exact same crime, the exact same way, and cause the exact same outcome.  Is it worse because one person did so because the other person was black/gay whatever compaired to any other reason they may have.

Because when you have specific hate crime laws... that's exactly what it means.

It means if you intentionally stab someone because they were black.  This is worse then intentionally stabbing someone just because you felt like it.  Or for intentionally stabbing someone because you wanted to rob them and wanted no witnesses or any other reason you could come up with in your head.

Yes if the crime is commited the exact same way with the exact same outcome for a different reason. Then it differs based on reason. Motive is what makes one crime worse then another even if both crimes have the same out come and way of execution.

Are you saying a bipolar person who is off medication freaks out and kills someone, should be treated the exact same way a man who is fully sane and comes into someones house not intending to kill them trying to rob them something goes wrong and he kills them? Or someone who hates someones race so much that he goes into someones house and butchers them.

All three are the same crime but three different motives. Can you hold the off medication mentally ill guy to the same standard as the theif to the same standard as the premeditated hate crime? No  you can't. Some things aren't black and white, motive changes things and differentiates between the seriousness of the crime.

Another example. A man stays up late playing video games he rolls over on his baby daughter sufficating her in his sleep. Is that the same as a man grabbing his daughter and sufficating her? Their the exact same crime but for different reasons and motives.

This is why in Canada and the US you have different murder charges. A man who is mentally unstable is not going to be charged the same way as a stable man. An accidental death is not going to be charged the same way as a murder. A hate crime is not going to be charged the same as a the regular crime.

Motives set the crimes apart.

Those aren't the same crimes.

Hate crime laws are laws that take the same crime and add additional penalties on to it because it is a hate crime.

All of your examples are invalid.

Hate crime laws come into effect after the crime committed has been decided.  

As in... someone is walking down the street... they bump into that person accidentally, then stabs them intentionally.

Should they be punished differently because

A) He did it because he was black.

B) He did it because he wanted to

C) He did it because he was angry

We are talking exact same circumstances here... exact same facts of the crime... exact same control of their faculties.  There are no accidents or extreme mental problems... just outright adults doing the same crime for different reasons.

Alright lets use your scenerio.

A man is walking down the street accidently bumps into a man and stabs him

Why did the individual stab the man?

A) Because he suffers froma mental disorder and is off his medication. He has a very hard time controlling his anger and flips out stabbing the man.

B) He bumps into the man notices the mans black. He decides because he hates black people to stab the man

C) The man bumps into the man while looking for a victim to stab, being a serial offender he has stabbed many people and chooses to stab again. The wrong place at the wrong time.

D) The man bumps into another man with an unsheathed knife and accidently stabs him (Graises him)

E) The man accidently bumps into another man, thinking the man has money he pulls and knife and tries to rob the individual. The man resists so he is stabbed.

Four different motives. Should all of them be treated the same? All four situations are identicle. Their are different reasons. Should the man who is mentally unstable be treated the same as the repeate offender? Should the racist be treated the same as the robber? Should the accidental stabbing be treated the same as the Racist?

No all four the exact same crime carried out in the exact same or pretty much same fashion. But all four have different reasons.

Now what are you going to suggest.

The exact same crime carried out the exact same way for the exact same reasons. Should they be treated all the same?

 

A)  Being off of his meds makes it a different crime.  Reckless endangerment.  Facts of the crime are different... so Invalid.  The actual crime started well before this happened when he went off his meds knowing he'd be a danger.  Reckless Endangerment.

B) Same punishment as any other stabbing.

C) Different facts of the crime.   He had premdiatated stabbing someone.

Unless

C2) He planned to stab someone in particular then decided this guy would do.  In which case, same punishment if he has stabbed as many people as person B.   If not, again... facts of the crime are different and would be reflected in sentencing.

Though if he was dumb enough to actually let people know he was going to stab someone else, i'm pretty sure there are other charges he could be brought up on.

D) He's not intentionally stabbing him then is he?  So.... different facts of the crime?

E) Again, different facts of the crime.   Either way he should be punished MORE serverly.  He is committing two crimes instead of one.    Either he's premeditated stabbing someone... or he had the exact same stabbing someone reflex, but this time while trying to comit a crime.