Islam and Christianity are almost the same!

[freedquaker]

valleyshrew said:

Why do muslims hate homosexuals so much? Afaik it's not really mentioned in the holy books. But looking at surveys on it:
Not a single mosque openly accepts gay members.
Gallup survey can’t find a single British Muslim who approves of homosexuality.
68% of american muslims support the death penalty against homosexuals.
27% of hate crimes against homosexuals committed in UK by Muslims (3% of population).

I know from personal experience muslims are the most hostile towards us, Christians often say bad things but they will not wish death upon you for what you do in your personal life (except in uganda apparently).

I don't like how you are insinuating you're a true muslim and all that you say is correct while anyone else is not a real muslim. For example, to most muslims there are 2 holy books, the Qu'ran and the Sunnah (or 3 if you count the Sunnah as it's sperate parts, the Hadith and Sira). You strangely don't recognise the existence of the Sunnah yet give over emphasis on the bible/torah/zabur which aren't very important in islam. A muslim cannot read the bible or torah as a religious text, the qu'ran retells the important stories from these many times and stands alone for muslims.

You also don't provide any sources for any of your statements, which are merely opinions that many muslims would disagree strongly with. I would question whether you have even read the qu'ran or whether you are forbidden to do so because it would be worrying to you (Qu'ran 5:101-102).

"Muslims do not hate Jews or Christians!"

Yes there are some passages, the very last verse of the qu'ran in fact, that preaches tolerance towards other religions, but it is preceded by line after line of hatred.

There are only 2 ways you can judge the muslim population: by what is written in the holy books; and by the actions and views (opinion polls) of the adherents. I have looked at both before coming to any conclusions.

5:14 And with those who say: "Lo! we are Christians," We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefor We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them...

3:118: O ye who believe! Take not for intimates others than your own folk, who would spare no pains to ruin you; they love to hamper you. Hatred is revealed by (the utterance of) their mouths, but that which their breasts hide is greater.

Christians and Jews are described as "those who earn Allah's anger," and "those who go astray", and "they whom Allah hath cursed". Jews are said to have been turned into apes and called the greediest of all mankind. "Verily evil is their handiwork." Countless times the qu'ran talks about having prepared a fire for all non-muslims in which they will burn for eternity, and muslims will get to see it and laugh (83:34). The qu'ran says not to be friends with non-muslims or you are one of them (5:51). A total of 527 verses preach hatred towards non-muslims. And a statistical analysis shows 61% of the qu'ran is about non-muslims. It's common for all religions and even political groups to preach hatred towards outsiders, it's a good way to survive and propogate.

In Islamic law if you leave the faith, you are to be put to death (after being given a chance to come back). 61% of british muslims want this introduced in britain.

Ok so we've looked at the qu'ran, but religious people don't 100% live their religious texts as it is impossible, but the opinion polls also show a strong hatred towards specifically Jews, but all nonmuslims also.

40% of British Muslims believe Jews are "a legitimate target". 100% of people in Jordan, Lebanon view jews unfavourably. Egypt, Qatar and Saudi Arabia all promote Holocaust denial and protect Holocaust deniers. Jewish victims of hate crimes outnumber Muslim victims by a 10-1 ratio in the usa. At protests muslims hold signs saying "behead those who insult islam" and "freedom of expression go to hell". Just google image search "islam protest sign". These are not all extremists, the normal moderate muslims are the same.

"Muslims do not encourange killings!

As a proud Muslim I can say that nowhere in the Quran does it say to kill a person."

You are surely deliberately lieing about this, or have certainly not read the qu'ran. If I was a muslim I would not waste any of my time until I had read all the holy texts, to ensure I was not sinning. Why do religious people not do this? A muslim I know told me he wasn't allowed to read the Qu'ran because he couldn't speak Arabic and english translations were corrupted by Djinns... How can you even call yourself a muslim if you haven't read it?

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter."

Sure, the verse is about killing people who have attacked you in the past, but you say nowhere in the qu'ran does it say to kill and quite clearly you are wrong. There are many other passages about killing I can find if you want.

"Another thing you should address is the term "Jihad"."

How about a little honestly instead of rehashing deceptive muslim apologist talking points? Fact: 3% of hadiths are about jihad as inner struggle, 97% are about violence. Islam is a violent religion and it is from the very beginning. Mohammad tried hard to preach peacefully in Mecca for 13 years, he gained few followers. He then moved to Medina where he was involved in regular attacks for the rest of his life, and he became ruler of Arabia without any enemies left standing. Islam has been so succesful because it is a political doctrine more than a religious one.

If Islam is a religion of peace then the most islamic countries should be the most peaceful right? But strangely the 5 at the bottom of the Global Peace Index are all Islamic and the only Islamic near the top is Qatar (15th). Is it really a coincidence? Is it a coincidence that Sweden, Japan, Norway etc. are the top countries of the peace index and the human developmental index, and they are the least religious countries?

Islam is fundamentally opposed to both democracy and freedom of speech. Islamic terrorists are 100% influenced by religion, there is no other way a person could be convinced to blow up others and himself, than if he was promised with an afterlife in paradise. Studies of islamic terrorists show them to have less mental illness than the general population, and that they are generally well educated. It is a fallacy to deny that they are really muslims. If true muslims hate terrorism why do only 28% of nigerian muslims oppose suicide bombing? A poll showed that a quarter of British Muslims sympathise with the motives of the London bombers. An undercover survey of more than 100 mosques showed 75% of U.S. mosques preach terrorism.

A few questions for you peace loving muslims:
1. Do you accept homosexuals deserve to live and not be harassed?
2. Have you read the Qu'ran and Sunnah?
3. Do you accept the holocaust happened?
4. Do you accept evolution happens?
5. Do you think it is right to kill someone who leaves islam?
6. Is it right to stone to death an adulterer?
7. Is it good that 68% of Punjabi girls have been molested?
8. Must non-muslims refrain from all criticisms of Islam or warrant beheading?

I realise there is only one islamic answer to these questions, it's for the non-muslims to see. You don't like to talk about what you really believe, just insisting you are peaceful and crying persecution. To see what persecution is really like try being a homosexual Jewish atheist in an islamic country.

Hello,

As a scholar in several disciplines including religions, I want to clarify a few issues here:

=> Why do muslims hate homosexuals so much?

Muslims (or Christians or Jews for that matter) do not hate homoesexuals, they just do not approve of their lifestyles. Islam, among three, is actually the most tolerant one, with little disregard to the individuals but completely against that the idea that homosexuality is normal. It accepts homosexual individuals as long as they stay celibate and do not claim to be normal. Islam forbids all sorts of discrimination against homosexuals although distorting the family values by modern homosexual rights such as gay marriage are deemed detrimental to the society thus banned and often penalized. You may disagree but cannot claim against.

=>  I know from personal experience muslims are the most hostile towards us.

This is a completely subjective and biased opinion or impression. I have had tons of muslim friends, and did not see any difference other than the usual tension between different cultures. If anything, it's the Christian world that was hostile to the Islamic Countries. It's Serbia & Croatia who massacred Bosnians, It's the Russians who masscared the Chechens, Its the Russians & Americans who invaded Afganistan, It's the US who invaded Iraq, It's the British & US backed Israel who invaded Palestine, it's the Western World who occupied exploited Middle East as well as other nations and so on... Now who is hostile?

=> to most muslims there are 2 holy books, the Qu'ran and the Sunna...

There is only 1 Holy Book that Muslims regard as true, which is Qu'ran. The Sunnah is the stories and words of the Prophet Muhammed, which is often an explanation to Qu'ran and the other social topics in details. The Sunnah, though important, is not the word of God, and only of small fraction of it is definitely binding.

=> Islam is fundamentally opposed to both democracy and freedom of speech.

Democracy is the product of the modern ages, who knows what system we will have in the next century, so please do not speak as if democracy is the absolute truth. There is more war and violence today in the world during the reign of democracy. There has been the bloodiest masscares throughout the world during the democracy age.

On the other hand, Islam is not fundamentally opposed to democracy. It is just not as liberal, and the rules are stricter. Another major difference is that the state is not secular, which is the main concern for many. However, Islam itself does not impose a certain ruling body itself and is compatible with many man-made systems as long as they do not violate the main principles of the religion.

Speaking of liberalism, as a person residing in the US, but not American, I'd thought I'd have relatively more freedom. I was wrong. There are so many restrictions that I had not even known existed. Of course America is more free in certain aspects but also lacks freedom in many others, which is close to impossible to perceive without living outside the US. At the end of the day, you recognize, Iranians' freedom, for instance, is not less than Americans, an awful truth! (And Iran is far from being a liberal Islamic country!).

Ok, let me answer the following questions objectively ...

A few questions for you peace loving muslims:
1. Do you accept homosexuals deserve to live and not be harassed?

Islam does not encourage discrimination to homosexuals. However, if they engage in criminal activities according to Islamic principles, they are punished like all criminals. Some acts today that are not defined as crimes might be deemed as crimes in Islamic rules. Claiming that Homosexuality is normal or engaging in gay sex, for instance, are crimes within Islamic principles.

2. Have you read the Qu'ran and Sunnah?

As a religious scholar, I read all the old & new testament & Quran. I read verses of other Holy Scripts as well. However, one cannot read the Sunnah entirely since there are literally hundreds of thousands of verses conveyed, which is not necessary either. Also the majority of those verses are either wronged or falsified. Thus muslims read only a certified selection of the Sunnah such as Kutubu sittah

3. Do you accept the holocaust happened?

This has nothing to do with the religion. Some people do, some people do not. Those who doubt, do it because of the Jewish media, which has the power to bend the public opinion towards their own interests, and fabricate all sorts of news, as in the example of the occupation of Palestine. Regardless of the true nature of the holocaust, these people have right to not believe. In democracy, you have freedom to believe, don't you?

4. Do you accept evolution happens?

Evolution does happen and the general opinion implicitly accepts this. However, they do not know this. The notions are quite different there. The evolution is developed by the mastermind of getting rid of GOD in science, which caused reactions from the Christian World. Evolution in Islamic was basically accepted and freely discussed before the influences of the Western Sphere, however, their version of Evolution, with a God-Defying nature, and the natural reaction from the Church, turned the tides up, leading to a total rejection of the theory. Today, there are alternative mainstream ideas in Islamic countries, supporting the idea of evolution with a God-centric perspective. The Summary of this idea is "God creates thru evolution".

5. Do you think it is right to kill someone who leaves islam?

This is a very close-minded and era-specific judgement. By today's standards, this cannot be true and you shouldn't try to understand things out of context, especially in law.

6. Is it right to stone to death an adulterer?

Please see my answer to 5.

7. Is it good that 68% of Punjabi girls have been molested?

This has nothing to do with Islam but more about the development of a country. The situation was reversed several centuries ago.

8. Must non-muslims refrain from all criticisms of Islam or warrant beheading?

Apparently you read the extreme literal interpretations of Islam, wahabism maybe? The answer is of course not.

 

There are too many misconceptions in this passage. If you are serious and sincere in your thoughts, please come back with an open-mind and learn things right from the true source.