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babuks on 02 November 2010
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richardhutnik said:
babuks said:
richardhutnik said:

So, on the surface, it would seem they are similar.  But, by making Jesus an unessential and an afterthought just touched on in the Quran, makes it really hard to considered they are similar. I also think a Muslim would find it outright weird to think of a group of some people of The Book, to be part of Christ's body. After all, why would a prophet have a body made up of people of the Book.


Enough talk from laymen. Listen to someone learned of both the religions and scriptures:

 

Just follow Youtube link to get other lectures on the same topic.

And if you compared that learned person with what the Old and New Testament says:

http://www.bibleprobe.com/jesus-is-God.htm

You do see a lack of compatibility I mentioned.  You can go and end up saying these verses are wrong and selectively cherry pick, as the speaker did, but the point will be missed.  And how can a speaker who claims to be learned about Islam and Christianity use a verse that shows Jesus referring to God as his Father, when the Qu'ran says that God has no children?  Otr, shorthand, is it appropriate for a proper for a Muslim to call God "father"?  If not, then every reference Jesus has to God as his father is wrong, right down to the prayer he gave, "Our Father who is in Heaven".  Besides this,  it is NOT good form to end up selectively picking what someone says IN a book, when you ignore the narrative about the person who penned the book.  To say what Jesus says in John is valid, but to throw out what John 1 says, is not good for.

And then, is it fitting that Jesus would call himself the Alpha and Omega?  That happens in Revelations 22. 

If you take 'father' to be biological father, then you have problem. Because there are tons of 'son' of the God and who is their 'father'. Many Prophets are called 'son' by the God in the Bible. So, they are the sons of God too? Actually that is the style of saying in old times. Saying 'father' does not mean biological father.

What he quoted out of context? You show the context and prove him wrong. None of the Christian scholars could do that in the past. You may take a look at his debate with Dr. William Campbell on Bible and Quran in the light of science.

What does it mean by saying 'Alpha and Omega' (First and the Last)? Jesus is not the first because he was born in a stable in the womb of a woman and there were several Prophets before him. He is not the last because Prophets came after him.

This Dr. Zakir Naik is learned of both the scriptures. You have to listen to his lectures in full in order to understand why he does not consider some of the verses to be true. The very scholars of Christianity threw out few verses from the Bible for being corrupt, fabrication and adulteration. So, check out if John 1 is something like that or not.

 

 

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But from a Western perspective look at this. You call yourself an army. Adultery - kill. Gay - kill. Leave religion - kill. Blasphemy - kill. Sure it's wrong to kill without justification, but you find that justification in your religion, so don't wonder too much why it and its prophet aren't seen as peaceful.

What a misinterpretation. So, you can't give examples? I give example of Army, that does not mean I call Muslims an Army. Don't misinterpret.

You say, Adultery=kill, Gay=kill, Leave religion=kill, Blasphemy=kill is not peaceful; I wonder how peaceful the western secular or christian societies are. In rape- no. 1, in kill- no.1, in adultery- no.1, electricity failure for 1 minute- loot of shops, rape of women. Is that what you call peace? Surely, you don't consider these to be major crimes and just punish the offender with little.

Islam proclaims severe punishments for some offences but that does not mean it has to be implemented. Because Islam does not only provides punishment for a crime, it provides how you can avoid such crime. Adultery is prohibited, and there is capital punishment for it. But there are methodology provided for both men and women so they don't indulge in adultery. A man must guard his modesty and keep his eyes towards the ground, a woman should wear modest dress. Pornography is prohibited so man or woman will not get excited watching them. This way, they will keep themselves safe and only make love with their spouses.

If you don't make strict laws for the offences, you can't control the offenders. If you make a law today that punishment for murder is $100 fine, just imagine what would happen.

If blasphemy is not an offence to you, I wonder if one day, some of those blasphemous people abuse your parents in bad language which you can't describe, what would you do? At least you would try to beat him. Oh come on! if you say you will sit tight and don't say anything, I must say you have 'guts'.