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ManusJustus said:
Killiana1a said:

Christian values are the foundation for which secular values could take root and grow. Without them, we may be living in some polytheistic tribal culture where if you offend one God, his followers will stone you to death.

Inaccurate.  Laughable.

Christianity dominated Europe and, along with Christian Barbarians, threw us into the Dark Ages for over a thousand years.  During these Christian dark ages, not being a Christian was a very bad idea.  Before then, during the Roman Empire, people were free to worship whatever God they wanted.  Rome allowed free practice for the numerous religions in their empire, with the only stipulations being that you can't disrespect Roman gods and you can't revolt against Rome (the Jews refused to acknowledge Roman gods, and that was okay with Rome until the Jews revolted, which resulted in the destruction of the Jewish Temple).  This was the norm long before Rome, as Europe had always been very secular and viewed the gods of other people as gods, just not their gods.  A counquered people would be subject to the conquerer's god, as they did conquer your god and would demand respect, but the conquerer didn't want to upset the god of the people they conquered, for fear of angrying their god.  The view that every religion was acceptable made pre-Christian Europe very secular and tolerant.

Fast forward to the Renaissance, which you laughable attribute the Christianity.  The Renaissance and the use of reason was a retreat from Christianity.  People gained interest in the philosophy of pre-Christian times (Greeks and Romans) and started to view rationalism reason as a better method to solving problems and answering questions rather than the Christian God.  There is a reason why so many thinkers during this period were punished by the Church, they were using reason rather than religion, such as Galileo using science to answer questions about the orbit of Earth rather than the Bible...


On the dark ages:

Films and novels often use the term "Dark Age" with its implied meaning of a time of backwardness. For instance, the popular movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail humorously portrays knights and chivalry, following in a tradition begun with Don Quixote. The 2007 television show The Dark Ages from The History Channel called the Dark Ages "600 years of degenerate, godless, inhuman behavior".[38]

The public idea of the Middle Ages as a supposed "Dark Age" is also reflected in misconceptions regarding the study of nature during this period. The contemporary historians of science David C. Lindberg and Ronald Numbers discuss the widespread popular belief that the Middle Ages were a "time of ignorance and superstition", the blame for which is to be laid on the Christian Church for allegedly "placing the word of religious authorities over personal experience and rational activity", and emphasize that this view is essentially a caricature.[39]

For instance, a claim that was first propagated in the 19th century[40][41] and is still very common in popular culture is the supposition that all people in the Middle Ages believed that the Earth was flat. According to Lindberg and Numbers, this claim was mistaken: "There was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".[41][42]

Ronald Numbers states that misconceptions such as "the Church prohibited autopsies and dissections during the Middle Ages", "the rise of Christianity killed off ancient science", and "the medieval Christian church suppressed the growth of natural philosophy" are examples of widely popular myths that still pass as historical truth, although they are not supported by current historical research.[43]

 

Beyond that, the renaissance was absolutely not a retreat from Christianity, but it was a movement away from orthodox views; most of the most famous artists and thinkers in the renaissance were deeply religious people, and most of the most famous works were religious in nature.