Barozi said:
sapphi_snake said:
Barozi said:
sapphi_snake said:
@Barozi:
Freedom of religion, a Christian value? - That's a secular value, not a Chirsitan one.
No forced marriages, a Chrisitan value? - It was practiced by Chrisitans up until a century ago. It's a cultural value, that has nothing to do with religion.
Equality for women, a Chrisitan value? - Islam has that one too. But in both Islam and Chrisitanity women are considered to be "equal" to men, but "different", each having already established roles (a woman's place is in the home, the man is the provider etc.). The "equality" between genders in Chrisitanity is totally different from teh actual equality in modern Western society.
She doesn't want anyone to become Christian with that statement.
Forcing someone to subscribe to the values of a certain religion is no different than forcing them to convert to said religion. Religion is something personal, so individuals can choose to follow the values of a certain religion, however society at large musn't adhere to the moral teachings of any religion, if religious freedom is something that society strives for of course.
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Christian values are strongly tied with Western values. There's not much more to say, it's basically a synonym.
We Germans understand that it's the same and we Germans don't give a crap if you want to understand it or not.
As for the last part. Again she doesn't want you to believe in Jesus or such crap she simply states that certain moslem traditions are not welcomed in this country, because they are against the law (mostly human rights).
And I'm unbaptizied and didn't even vote for her party.
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If you want to think that, go ahead. It's contrary to reality though.
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only in your own reality though
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I'm not surprised sapphi feels this way, to be honest. I'm extremely baffled what hit Merkel that she moved to the right during the last months. I guess polling below 30% made the difference...
And I think it's absolutely neccessary to talk about this from the view of a muslim. When I was a child I was guest in a muslim family almost daily. Just like 99% of all muslims they were just normal people. The problems in our society are no problems of religion. In the first place it's a matter of education and chances in life. Ask anybody if they are scared of people from balkan states. They will look at you baffled and ask "why should I be scared of those people?" Well, a lot of people in the Balkan states are muslims, aren't they? So is it really about religion?
That's the funny thing with statistics: You can prove whatever you want with them. Had Sarrazzin written a book about "Hauptschüler" destroying our society it would have been a lot easier to "prove" his claim (!!!) Does that mean people lacking high education should be pushed out of the country?
And I really hate it how even politicians begin to classify people by the amount of money they bring in. What happened to us that a person's life is worth less than the money that person earns? It's really creepy because it happens all over Europe and in the US.
