Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
At this point I would like to direct you, again, to the document I referred to earlier from which I draw this information. Since you were apparently unable or unwilling to check it out yourself.
"An affidavit from Kweli Shuhubia ("Brother Tom") filed with the Berg lawsuit describes the procedure followed: 'During the interview conversation, one of Ms. Obama’s grandsons and myself acted as Swahili translators, and as Bishop McRae talked to and questioned Ms. Obama, we would translate what Bishop McRae said to Ms. Obama in Swahili, and then we would translate her Swahili responses to Bishop McRae in English. Ms. Obama can fluently speak Swahili in her native dialect, but cannot read or write.'"
"As noted, on Oct. 16, 2008 the American minister Ron McRae called the Obama household in Kenya, evidently from his home in Pennsylvania, with the help of his on-location contact "Brother Tom", also known as Kweli Shuhubia. In the days following the October 16 phone call, Shuhubia went searching elsewhere in Kenya for incriminating documents proving that Obama had been born in Kenya and sent emails to McRae seeking sums of money necessary to pry open the necessary documents from their top secret sources. Excerpts from these emails, which give the impression of being reports from someone on a paid assignment, were included as attachments to court filings associated with a lawsuit filed by Philip Berg of Pennsylvania challenging Obama's legitimacy to be President. There is no information on whether McRae responded to the requests from his African contact for money, or whether if he did he received anything back of value. In any event, apart from the unsubstantiated claims of sensational top secret documents in Kenya in Shuhubia's emails requesting money, no evidence has come to light proving Obama was born in Kenya."
ONE OF THE TRANSLATORS WAS AN AGENT FOR THE BIRTHERS.
So I ask you again, is it reasonable to think someone on McRae's payroll to dig up dirt on the birth in Kenya would have assisted in covering up an admission to McRae in his presence about that same birth? |
I wouldn't call him an agent of the birthers.
He was asking for money to open up and give him money to get the secret documents of Obama's birth.
No documents were produced... either
A) Said documents don't exist, and he was conning them out of money.
B) Said documents DO exist and he simply didn't produce them for one way or another.
At worse it doesn't effect anything at all... and at best it raises more questions about Obama because there are apparently birth records of his in Kenya. Such an exchange should make you doubt more, not less.
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So you're suggesting that he heard them lie about what she said, but didn't say anything because he was planning to scam McRae, and McRae somehow wouldn't pursue getting Kenyan records if he KNEW Obama was born in Kenya ... and also the payday for the translation coup wouldn't satisfy him.
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There really isn't any other option.
He promised the documents were there then asked for money.
So... if your McRae and you want to prove this... what are the options here?
A) He gave the money for the documents, and didn't receive them for one reason or another. If he did. We would of heard about it.
B) He didn't give the money... for... who knows why if he is desperaly trying to prove this?
What other option is there?
Furthermore, this is the same guy that "corrected" the initial translation.
He was either scamming McRae from the outset... or he was telling the truth.
Why would he tell McRae about said documents over private email if he was a birther paid agent to facilitate stuff? The only reason would be if said documents DID exist.
If they didn't wouldn't he instead be talking about something like a way to forge said records?
Isn't it MORE likely he just said the documents existed without doing much if any real checking to extort some money?
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I don't think you're getting me.
If he alerted McRae to the fact that the Obama clan was lying about the translation error, wouldn't that get them even MORE fired up to send him out for documents etc.? So I'm not seeing his motive to lie here even if he's a scammer, and even supposing his conduct in this situation was COMPLETELY dictated by his scamming plans.
And if he's not a scammer ...
"'From what [Obama's] brother in Huruma-Nairobi says verbally he refused 2000US Dollars from Dr.
Jerome Corsi, a white American who wanted to bribe him to get the same information but was immediately deported on [7-10-2008] by the Kenyan Government. According to him if we can raise ten times that amount then he is willing to help.' (Shuhubia's emails can be seen at
[edit: Apparently the rest got deleted. I said in a postscript that it's very possible that he honestly reported that conversation, and then when it turned up zilch turned to scamming to stay on the payroll. It's somewhat less believable that he's just credulous and got scammed himself.]
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I'm not suggesting he got scammed himself.
I'm suggesting he was scamming McRae in general and never planned to give him what he wanted, whether it existed or not.
If he wasn't scamming anybody, it means there really are documents.
I can't see why he wouldn't be scamming McRae and THEN decide to later on when he couldn't find any proof. To do that, he'd of had to of been 100% sure there would be proof before he started looking... or thought they were lieing to him.
Why would he think he was translating it honestly AND think there would still be proof out there to find that would get him money? That just doesn't jive... he would obviously know there wouldn't be anything to keep him on the payroll at that point.
If you ask me, a much better counterarguement for your point would be that he was scamming McRae from the start and intentionally mistranslated that sentence in a completely dumb way to convince McRae there was reasoning for him to give him money to find "real" documents linking his birth to Kenya.
Which in itself is possible, but other options aren't unprobable themselves and i'm not sure it's the most probable of them. Although I'd say that he corrected it, then only later realized he wouldn't be on the payroll ISN'T one of those possible reasons.
