thismeintiel said:
steverhcp02 said:
thismeintiel said:
steverhcp02 said:
mrstickball said:
The real issue is with voters during primaries.
That is why the system is so screwed up. People vote for the incumbent, or the person that promises the most, without learning about the candidates views and past successes. Voter turnout is usually 50% that of general elections in America (I should know, I've worked the past 3 elections in my state). If people care so little about who they elect as their parties candidate for the general election, things will go bad, because most end up voting based on party.
If primaries were better - people cared more about who was up for election, then we'd be putting forth much better candidates. America could of had Ron Paul as its GOP nominee. Had they had him, I believe Obama wouldn't be in the white house today.
As for Odonnell - my question would be 'what are her views when it comes to creating and writing laws?'. I could care less about their personal beleifs if it didn't get in the way of public policy. Thats something lacking from most peoples concerns, though. Many want candidates that look nice, but write absolutely insane policy.
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To the first bolded. I agree. Thats the political climate and still is to be honest. People can watch a commercial and agree 100% with it, it gets to the end and they see its a republican (and the voter is democrat) and they dismiss the entire ad.
To the second bolded. This is why i tend to vote democrat. There is a CLEAR distinction in governing styles as opposed to personal beliefs. We see this with Pro choice issues, healthcare and the big one, religion. The GOP is so rooted in the absolute NEED to appeal to very religious, conservative people that they simply MUST govern based on their beliefs. This is what holds them back national. For primaries, this is why ODonnel gets in because its republicans voting for republicans and they like that batshit insane shit, for real elections it simply doesnt appeal to a lot of peopl.
The GOP will surely win a lot of seats simply because like you said earlier, people are disillusioned based on what their image of what the president promised was however, like always, the GOP will be far too concerned with their base and the tea party will not help since that base is becoming not only more vocal but more fringe.
What ive found interesting in many polls about healthcare and such, the GOP always points to "approve/disapprove" but never really expand on whats the cause of diapproval. Because many of the debates centered around a public option (that base dems wanted) and was crafted more centric (this is essentially the same proposal made by the house during Clintons attempt in the early 90's and that was made by republicans) people dont realize many of us that disapprove of the current healthcare disapprove because it isnt enough, and thats why likely voters actually will vote, according to polls, more in favor of someone who voted FOR healthcare than against it, because we know damn well if we disapprove because its not enough we arent going to think a republican will get it done.
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How exactly are the Tea Party a fringe group now? They have only 2 talking points they want to happen. One is to shrink the size of government, which has gotten too big and controls WAY too much. And second, to cut the outrageous spending. I don't see how any of those are "crazy" ideas. I support both of them and I wouldn't cosider myself crazy.
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Youre taking two complex issues and talking about them like they are issues like having fish or chicken for dinner. I really dont have the time or effort to debate how they are fringe, but im very confident, as evident by Odonnel, it will become apparent when general elections hit.
They didnt become fringe, they have always been fringe. Over the last 8 years this country sacrificed so much of its actual freedom due to the patriot act and the tea party never batted an eye. The second you want to give people healthcare the shit hits the fan about freedom. Please.
The only reason they want to "vote them out" and its all about changing ALL of congress is because the majority are democrats. The second republicans take control the tea party will change its its mantra, i guarantee it.
The only thing more annoying than people who put their jobs on hold because the big bad government is taking their money so they can travel the country in lavish buses and yell through megaphones is the people who act like the tea party doesnt have deep rooted fringe republican ties.
A good way to tell if a group is fringe and pretty whacko? If the holy trinity, Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck approve, watch out! :)
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I speak of it that way, because those 2 issues ARE that simple. Unfornately, we have career Dem's and Rep's who are more worried about power and money, than actually representing the people. That is going to start to change this Nov.
And it's alittle more complicated than just Rep. vs. Dem. If it was that, they would have voted for Castle in DE (not to mention the other races where Tea Party candidates won). Castle was who all the big Rep.'s wanted nominated, and therefore endorsed. This movement has to do with Conservative policies.
Of course, I'm just the opposite when it comes to Hannity, Limbaugh, and Beck. Do I always agree with them? No. But for the most part, I do.
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Thats why this group is fringe. They essentially single handedly LOST DE for the repubs. The thing is, the tea party is conservative, endorsed by Palin and a number of other outskirts conservatives, they are the exact definition of Fringe the scary thing is its bringing a lot of these people out of the woodwork so there are a lot of them.
Honestly the tea party is probably the worst thing thats happened to the republicans, theyre turning inward on each other and instead of electing solid, sound republicans theyre calling each other names "Rino" and not focusing on the larger picture which will hurt them in the general election and hurt the party long term if people like Sarah Palin keep praising their efforts because it only divided the party more.
Rather than laying an outline of conservative policies i only hear little rhyming schemes "repeal and replace" "just vote them out" "the party of hell no" But nothing else. People like it when theyre angry, but once these characters like ODonnell get the nomination and people (IE non tea party voters who have to vote) see where these fun little rallies are getting them i have a feeling the tone will change.
It should be interesting, but the tea party really is the fringe of the republican party that attempts to masquerade itself as a Joe Six Pack group, but like i said, when the real Joe Six Packs see these people the tea party is endorsing and if Palin keeps praising them its going to be even more apparent as people begin to distance themselves from them.
