Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
2. Why exactly do you think the south wouldn't be convinced? Nor do I get why it matters the south is the part of the country who believes it. It feels like your hinting at a "the south is racist" point here, though I could be wrong. Either way oddly from what i've seen in sociological and psychological studies is the most racist areas in the US tends to be in the North East. Largely because racism is mostly centered around big cities now a days. You've got the white people in one area, hispanics in another, blacks in another, close to each other but hardly any interaction and some areas are just worse then others... it's no good. Better integration of cities is needed, but it's not like you can order people where to buy their houses.
Hate crime statistics also back this up as well, but i'm largely not sure what goes into labeling something a hate crime or not.
I don't see why the south would be any different.
I disagree it's reasonable to give up trying to prove something when it will take all of 5 minutes to make one phone call. Afterall that would be by far the biggest proof he could ever of given. It should of been the first thing he did heck could of been the first AND last.
3. Reporters have made up a college degrees that they've had... then only been found out after they were caught plagerizing something or some big other scandal... and they're working for people who DO investigate stuff.... but yeah, people often do make mistakes like wrong colleges or degrees or all kinds of mistakes, ESPIECALLY on large articles covering a long period of time because your deadline is going to be the same as it would be on a small article.
4. Would you have known if it didn't say the hosptial on the forms? Birth never seemed like a big topic to me. Heck I was told about my birth only because I was born premature... even then I didn't know the hospital I was born at, just the hospital I was taken to. Didn't know until I looked on the birth certificate, wouldn't of probably known, but just assumed based on the fact that most people are born in hospitals. Most reporters would likely just guess based on location since you'd likely be born in that particular hospital.
My guess is, in the 1950's honolulu probably only had a few hospitals anyway. |
2. "Why exactly do you think the south wouldn't be convinced? " That's the OPPOSITE of the point I made, should we even be continuing this discussion if you're not going to pay attention to what you're reading?
As for the south being racist, whether it is or isn't isn't all that relevant to the point I made although my opinion is either that or Republican-ness or just being more ... anti things that seem foreign? ... is what's responsible for the vastly different statistics.
3 & 4. The fact remains that these are just completely pulled out of you ass for no better reason than they could possibly have happened, no matter how unlikely. I doubt "most" reporters would bet their professional reputation, and job, on it being the closest hospital to the home he lived at in childhood (as opposed, IIRC, to the one listed in the birth notice in the papers), when that hospital is probably only one of several in the city. I mean I don't even consider that information they absolutely had to have to do those bio pieces, so why make shit up? Making a mistake, or forgetting to double-check a source, is different from just making shit up. The former causes corrections to be issued; the latter causes scandals.
And yes I know & would have known I was born at a hospital independent of the forms.
P.S. I believe you mean "in the 1960s".
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2. There is a lot of "republicaness" in other areas as well though... so I don't really see your point... and I still think your underestimating the independent numbers. 17% not sure is fairly substantial. The fact that it's mostly democrats shouldn't be a surprise though, as you know... democrats wouldn't want to believe it even if it was true. Why would you?
3&4. Except they aren't THAT likely. As for what your "doubting" I'd guess we've read and seen much different things about the media. As far as I'm aware stuff like that is actually very common practice to have mistakes. Sometimes intentional, sometimes infered and sometimes they just thought they heard it but didn't.
Also... I'm guessing you don't recall correctly... because as was mentioned countless times, no reporter is going to have access TO the birth certificate with the hospital on it. So I don't see how a reporter could of gotten that info from anywhere when nobody else has been able to since, including apparently the president. (since he's never produced info saying as such.)
It's all very valid possibilties that could eaisly be explained away with a 1 minute phonecall that isn't made.
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2. Well -- whatever the case may be about people's "Republicanness" -- the fact remains that, IIRC, according to that poll, 90% of people in regions other than the South (over all parties: Democrats, Republicans, and independents) already believe this, while a total of 10% are unsure or disbelieve. At that point, as I said, I believe it's extremely hard to get those last people to change their minds.
As you said, it's not quite that extreme with independents over all regions (including the south). And as I said -- which you somehow interpreted as the opposite -- the number over all parties in the south is much lower, so there's no telling how many people in that region may be convinced; I suppose it would depend on what made their rate of belief differ so much, although IMO it strains belief that some sort of bias wouldn't be involved.
3. I don't know what I said that suggested to you that I thought they WOULD have access to birth certificates. I think you misread something.
And this phone call is getting shorter and shorter.
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2. I still don't see your point here then. The number of overall parties is lower in the south... i still don't see the point. You can claim biases everywhere however. Heck, maybe more southerns care because the south cares far more about immigration issues then the rest of the country since they deal with it the most.
" I doubt "most" reporters would bet their professional reputation, and job, on it being the closest hospital to the home he lived at in childhood (as opposed, IIRC, to the one listed in the birth notice in the papers), "
And it keeps getting shorter because it really is a very short phonecall. Heck you don't even need a phonecall. You could take 30 seconds after a reporter asks you about it and say "Heck, I give you permission to aks the hospital personal yourself! Bam, it's on tape. Done.
Besides, it doesn't change the fact that what I said in fact is possible and he's avoided such an easy manuever to debunk said things. That makes it really silly to say you are 100% sure that he is a natrualized citizen.
If anything, more people should say "not sure." Really nobody should be in the "100% sure" or "100% sure he isn't" categories. Well unless you just don't care, didn't pay attention or didn't read much about it.
