Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:I could accept the idea of incompetence insofar as to get the date of birth wrong. I REJECT the idea that someone could ACCIDENTALLY turn the place of birth into "Honolulu, Oahu" from "Kenya" or "Indonesia" or whatever the fuck the conspiracy theory is.
So in reality you are left with only one hypothesis: that there was a CONSPIRACY to defraud the United States government into thinking that he was a natural born citizen instead of him becoming a citizen normally, which really has very little purpose OTHER than if they anticipated that he would want to become POTUS or maybe serve in Congress. Given the extremely limited usefulness of such fraud I find this possibility extremely remote.
And no, if it was such a fraud then surely they would not be so RETARDED as to list a Kenyan hospital. So really your quest for the "real" birth certificate is quite meaningless.
It makes me sad that you are seriously taking this position. |
Actually, I'm pretty sure if he wouldn't of been a citizen if born elsewhere. His mom wasn't here long enough for citizenship to attach.
The point of the "Fraud" is there would be no hospital listed, because it'd be listed as a home birth vs being born in a hospital.
You wouldn't even need a long birth certificate for that.
All he'd have to do is give the hospital the right to release his records.
|
I mean whatever way he would become a citizen otherwise, he could have done.
Also, "On July 28, 2009, Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying, "I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen,"." The fraud continues! How much money have the Obamas spent on this coverup?! Is there no honest man left in the Hawaiian Health Dept.?
And what makes you positive he WASN'T born at home? And if he was born in a hospital, you can bet that all you people would descend on it and harass the staff for every CONCEIVABLE shred of remotely relevant record, rejecting EVERY positive result until at last you die of old age, still looking for proof. And you'd also track down and annoy the employees from 1961 the same way.
Not to mention that this is considered fact by the vast, VAST majority of people, so all it would really do is stir things up again, not settle them like you seem to believe.
|
Now your just being ridiculious.
A) He saw the original records saying he was born in Hawaii. Not sure how that'd change anything based on if he was born in a hospital or not.
B) How do I know he wasn't born at home? I don't. I don't know where he was born at all because the info hasn't been released. That's kinda the point. Besides, what's wrong with the hospital giving them relevent records. It's not like he's a manager at Wal-Mart... he's the President. Quite honestly I don't understand why President's aren't required to relase all documents about themselves anyway. If there is a job that should require giving up your privacy about your past... it's definitly president.
Also, it's not as vast as you think.
It's 77% which is a decent amount. But 11% do not and 12% arent' sure.
23% of americans aren't sure he's a natural born citizen. I wouldn't call 77% a vast VAST majority. It's only 3/4ths. I'd save vast vast for like... 90-95%. To convince more then about a fourth of the nation. I'd say it was worth doing.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2009/07/31/fewer_than_half_of_republicans_think_obama_is_a_citizen.html
And this was a Daily Kos poll of all things. So I don't think they're likely to slant to the side of "think he's not a citizen."
I think a small gesture to help convince like... a fourth of the country wouldn't hurt.
Though then again i'd be surprised if a fourth of the country cared. Like I said, natural born citizenship is a dumb requirement to run for president.
|
Goddammit, my post disappeared and I have to try to do it all over again.
1. I stand corrected: the information is already out there. Wikipedia sez he was born in Kapi'olani Maternity & Gynecological Hospital. Surely you will admit that a conspiracy would at least keep its story straight?
2. I've already said previously in this conversation that I thought it was above 90-95%, so I don't know why you were surprised that I continued to believe it later on when I wasn't corrected. (BTW, it's interesting how the point spread worked out on that survey. 42% of Republicans believe Obama and Hawaii, while everyone else is more like 90%. 47% of Southerners, 90% everywhere else in the country.)
3. What makes you think that releasing that info would prove anything? You're already alleging a conspiracy that was able to alter government records, so the unreleased information could also have been altered -- or are you also alleging that the reason it hasn't been released is that the conspiracy was unable to "get to" those particular records? Of course, that wouldn't apply to the "long form" birth certificate, as the "short form" certificate is just a truncated version of it.
4. I think I said this earlier: what is the motive you're imagining? What was the PURPOSE that made all this lawbreaking back in 1961 worthwhile?
P.S. A part of me keeps thinking you're about to say "haha, just kidding, I don't really think Obama is an illegal immigrant".
|
1. Yeah, Wikipedia suggests that's the hospital he was born in. Actually was my point. Except hospital administration has said they can't confirm or deny he was born there without Obama agreeing to give info. Why he won't is beyond me.
2. Really thought you were just using hyperbole. Also... 20% of independents I wouldn't sneeze at.
3. I'm not actually suggesting any conspiracy nor have. Even if he wasn't born here a conspiracy is by far less likely then other things.
4. If Obama wasn't born in the US, because his mom wasn't a citizen for long enough Obama wouldn't of been a natural born citizen, which would mean his parents would likely have to fill out paperwork and wait for the government wheels to turn. When it'd be so much easier to simply say he was born here.
Also, I don't think he is an illegal immigrant. I really just have no clue. There is plenty of reason to wonder because it'd be simple to clear up if he really wanted to. Like I said... I think it's more likely it's an act of politcal gamesmanship. Either way, without any clarification either is possible.
