Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
Kasz216 said:
Final-Fan said:
1. I want this to be absolutely clear: are you suggesting incompetence, or fraud? Because I don't really see any other options on that one.
2. Did you even read the article?? "Although original birth certificates (Certificates of Live Birth) are preferred for their greater detail, the State Department of Health (DOH) no longer issues Certificates of Live Birth. When a request is made for a copy of a birth certificate, the DOH issues a Certification of Live Birth."
3. At least 99.5% of people accept this as beyond beaten to death. I'd say even among the people originally inclined to wonder about his citizenship, 90% or more are satisfied. Just because there are a few diehards who will not be satisfied until we invent a time machine and go back and watch him be born doesn't make it worth pursuing further to the administration.
4. This post which you seem to be responding to is just a sideline or addendum to the bigger one above (with the aforementioned article link). Do you have any response to that post? |
1. Either or both are possible.
2. Except you can have your medical records released regardless, it's been stated before.
3. I disagree, when you have a VERY easy mechanism to prove something without a shadow of a doubt, and refuse to take that mechanism, it tells me something.
4. It's abridged in that it doesn't mention hospitals, which for example in the case of fraud or incompetance could mean the hospital listed is either foreign or listed as "home birth".
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I could accept the idea of incompetence insofar as to get the date of birth wrong. I REJECT the idea that someone could ACCIDENTALLY turn the place of birth into "Honolulu, Oahu" from "Kenya" or "Indonesia" or whatever the fuck the conspiracy theory is.
So in reality you are left with only one hypothesis: that there was a CONSPIRACY to defraud the United States government into thinking that he was a natural born citizen instead of him becoming a citizen normally, which really has very little purpose OTHER than if they anticipated that he would want to become POTUS or maybe serve in Congress. Given the extremely limited usefulness of such fraud I find this possibility extremely remote.
And no, if it was such a fraud then surely they would not be so RETARDED as to list a Kenyan hospital. So really your quest for the "real" birth certificate is quite meaningless.
It makes me sad that you are seriously taking this position.
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Actually, I'm pretty sure if he wouldn't of been a citizen if born elsewhere. His mom wasn't here long enough for citizenship to attach.
The point of the "Fraud" is there would be no hospital listed, because it'd be listed as a home birth vs being born in a hospital.
You wouldn't even need a long birth certificate for that.
All he'd have to do is give the hospital the right to release his records.
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I mean whatever way he would become a citizen otherwise, he could have done.
Also, "On July 28, 2009, Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying, "I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen,"." The fraud continues! How much money have the Obamas spent on this coverup?! Is there no honest man left in the Hawaiian Health Dept.?
And what makes you positive he WASN'T born at home? And if he was born in a hospital, you can bet that all you people would descend on it and harass the staff for every CONCEIVABLE shred of remotely relevant record, rejecting EVERY positive result until at last you die of old age, still looking for proof. And you'd also track down and annoy the employees from 1961 the same way.
Not to mention that this is considered fact by the vast, VAST majority of people, so all it would really do is stir things up again, not settle them like you seem to believe.
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Now your just being ridiculious.
A) He saw the original records saying he was born in Hawaii. Not sure how that'd change anything based on if he was born in a hospital or not.
B) How do I know he wasn't born at home? I don't. I don't know where he was born at all because the info hasn't been released. That's kinda the point. Besides, what's wrong with the hospital giving them relevent records. It's not like he's a manager at Wal-Mart... he's the President. Quite honestly I don't understand why President's aren't required to relase all documents about themselves anyway. If there is a job that should require giving up your privacy about your past... it's definitly president.
Also, it's not as vast as you think.
It's 77% which is a decent amount. But 11% do not and 12% arent' sure.
23% of americans aren't sure he's a natural born citizen. I wouldn't call 77% a vast VAST majority. It's only 3/4ths. I'd save vast vast for like... 90-95%. To convince more then about a fourth of the nation. I'd say it was worth doing.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2009/07/31/fewer_than_half_of_republicans_think_obama_is_a_citizen.html
And this was a Daily Kos poll of all things. So I don't think they're likely to slant to the side of "think he's not a citizen."
I think a small gesture to help convince like... a fourth of the country wouldn't hurt.
Though then again i'd be surprised if a fourth of the country cared. Like I said, natural born citizenship is a dumb requirement to run for president.
