superchunk said:
nobodyspecial said:
But Islam does kill, the Koran instructs muslims to kill:
"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura 9:5)
Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels."
But they shouldn't kill one of their own who has killed a "kafir":
“No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel).”(Hadith vol. 9:50)
However if a muslim stops being a muslim then they're fair game:
“Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” (Hadith 9:45; 84.2.57.)
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I've read a few of your posts since I was gone and wow you are so ignorant in not only history of the middle east but also of Islam itself. I'm going to address this post as well as some comments you made in others.
1. Muhammad was not a pedofile. Of his wives only one was a virgin let alone would be considered underage by TODAY'S standards. Everyone else was previously married and generally widows from the wars of his time. The one girl he married that was young was around 13 or so when they married and that was not uncommon during 600's AD. Hell, some modern western nations have it at 13 today (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Europe).
2. Muhammad, as well as Islam, never ordered the murder of people who are not Muslim. The Quran forbades murder as the death of any human is like the death of all of humanity. The quotes you list above, you obviously pulled from a anti-islamic website, are taken out of context. Every quote about killing 'infidels' in the Quran relates war. Not just because they are not Muslim. On top of that the Quran has strict rules about war such as:
a) You cannot start a war unless it is in the defense of self or others. As God does not like the aggressor.
b) You must follow a list of humane treatment of prisoners of war (this list is essentially identical to today's geneva convention rules)
c) You cannot harm livestock, women, children, or farms/fields in any way; only other military combatants.
If you actually read the Quran, the verses right before your quotes are talking about current (then) wars with the Arab nonMuslims who continually kept attacking the Muslims living in Medinah at the time. On top of the the Kufr or infidels are not 'nonMuslims', but are anyone without belief which includes Christians and Jews. Who also has another special term call 'People of the Book' as they believed in the same God as Muhammad.
3. The Hadiths you quoted are bs. Hadiths are writings that various groups attribute to Muhammad. However, they are known to not have been written down until hundreds of years after the Prophet was dead because he forbade anyone from writing down anything he said/did that he did not proclaim as coming from God. These Hadiths are different depending on which sect of Islam you follow. They contradict each other and the Quran in soooo many different ways its crazy anyone follows their 'advice'. The Quran also states that Muslims are not allowed to take any book but the Quran as their guide, yet almost all Muslim sects have some version of Hadith literature that they use as a primary source above the Quran, especially those with the most extreamist views such as Taliban.
4. (This might not have been your argument) Crusades were horrible to everyone, including Christians. The crusaders murdered not only many Muslims, but Jews and Christians who didn't properly support them as they passed through thier towns. Crusades burned Mosques and Synagogues as well as turned the holy mount in Jerusalem into a trash heap and horse stable. It wasn't until Salah al-din threw out the last crusaders did the region turn to normalcy for ALL worshipers. In fact he forbade anyone from harming any Christian temple or non-military person, according to real Quranic rules of warfare. During nearly all of Arab controlled Islamic Empire (preOttoman) anyone of any faith lived far better in Islamic lands than they did in Christian Rome (Except Catholics of course).
Your continuous spouting merely proves Islamaphobia exists and continues strongly due to fictional ideas of what Islam is and has been as well as using the same tools to hate Muslims as the extreamists use to convert people to their ways. The only way to stop the Islamaphobia as well as extreamism within Islam is by focusing on truth and not allowing ignorance to prevail.
AT this time I am on my work computer and don't have access to my searchable Quranic links to give you all the direct full quotes to disprove you. But, if you wish I can come back with this at a later time, or you can simply search for a online Quran and read the verses surrounding what you quoted.
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