Do you honestly believe Obama has a chance in 2012?

[damndl0ser]

TheRealMafoo said:

damndl0ser said:

TheRealMafoo said:

damndl0ser said:

Are you saying that everyone should pay an equal amount per person?  This logic fails me.

 

Generally the more money you make the more resources you use from the general public.  As an example, if I am a truck driver and I drive continually year round and make $70,000 a year.  I have used more resources than the average Joe Blow who works down the street that unloads my truck and makes $15,000 a year.  Since I use more resources , generally I should pay more tax.  Everyones tax should be different.  

If I miss understood your point sorry.  But a flat tax is simply not fair, the upper class who generally use more of these resources our Government provides would basically turn whats left of the middle class into peasants if this happend.  Sure it sounds nice that everyone would pay an equal amount and that this is a fair share but it is not.  The rich would get richer, the middle class would perish and the lower class would have an even smaller chance of climbing out of it.

The example of the truck driver is just a basic one, and generally it would work with about anyone who makes a lot of money (at any job).

 

I am not talking money, I am talking time. Everyone should pay the same time per year. If I make 10x what you make over the same time, I should pay 10X what you pay.

The way we do it today, is if I make 10x what you make, people think it's right to just ask me to pay 10% more, and then you don't have to pay anything. That's wrong. I don't owe any more of this country then you do, and my opinion of how to run this country does not matter any more then your does.

If along with not supplying hours to the country, you also chose to give up your say in how it's run, I guess I would have less of a problem with it. So the 43% of the people who provide no effort to keeping the country up, don't get a say in how it's run. If I have to work twice as many hours as you do in order to supply what the country thinks I should pay, my vote should count twice as much.

That's not really how I would want it to be, but at least that's fare.

The way it is today is like having three people living in a house, two pay all the bills and take care of the upkeep, and one does nothing (and has no plans to do anything). When it's time to discuss how much money to spend on replacing the front porch, do you think all three should have an equal say? I should hope you wouldn't expect the one who has no intent to pay or do the work, to have the same weight in the discussion.

If you do, where do you live? I want to move in.

Where did you come up with this 43% of people?  I am not doubting it I would just like to know.  I would imagine more than half of those people are disabled, retired or children.  So what happens when you get hurt or retire?  Do you expect those people should lose their right to vote etc..?   And should put their "time" in?  

I do believe that if your able to work you should work, but there are people who cannot work.  A lot of those people have severe physical and or mental disabilities, I do feel like that we as a nation should take care of this group of people.  If you think we should just get rid of them or let them starve then you would probably fit in with the Young Hitler Youth.

There will never be 100% compliance with the system.  Just for the simple fact we are all humans and some of us really just don't give a fuck and could live under a tree for all they care.  Unfortunately a lot of these people live with their hands out and this is the real problem.  It will never go away, and it has always been this way since the begining of time.  They were usually beggers and thieves.

It's actually 47%. I just low balled it because I was to lazy to look it up.

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm

They still pay state taxes, and social security, but they don't pay income tax. And I never said those people don't need to be taken care of, I just said it's not the governments job to do it. 100 years ago no one paid federal income tax, and people did not starve on the streets. We took care of each other. As government becomes all things to people, this feeling of individual responsibility towards others will continue to fade. That's not a good thing.

Oh, and being I am of Jewish, I doubt the Hitler youth would take me. Our founding fathers would however, as all I am asking out country to become, is what it was (while keeping our civil rights).

Aside from civil rights, nothing in the last 200 years has made us better.

And your starting to sound like the last guy who had no points to defend your point of view. All you do is attack me. 

To you and people like you, taking from those you feel can be taken from is OK. For me, we should take from no one.

Why does that make me the bad guy?

Dude, I am not attacking you.  I agreed that everyone should pay there way so we basically have the same idea. (The Hitler thing was uncalled for though sorry.)  I just understand that it will never go back to the old days of no income tax and everyone takes care of their neighbor.  The simple fact is without an income tax we wouldn't have an interstate system, or anything that made the 20th century worth living in such as vaccines, and medicines.   Thank god we do have it and thank god people pay it in or we would all be without electricity and running water, except for the chosen few at the top.  Sort of like Africa is right now, look it up.  Most of them don't have an income tax.  Well at least most of them don't pay one in anyway.

And I do agree we need to get back to some of the ways of the past but not having an income tax is a horrid idea.  How exactly are we supposed to pay of our national debt?  Just tell them to piss off we have nukes?  Sure we could do that and I am certain we could probably get away with it.  But the rest of the world would be in economic chaos.  I don't get where your saying I don't have anything to stand on.  I explained my examples and I am certain they made sense to most of us.  You just need to chill out and we can agree to disagree.

And by the way I'm not a left wing nut, commie, or right wing jerkoff.  I am in the center, and I believe both sides have good people in them, they are just so foolish they can't agree to get along and work together.  Luckily for the rest of the world its like this or there would be no stopping us.  In 15 years when China over takes us as the supreme economic power were all doomed.  I will only be 53 and at that point I will be probably be jobless and my savings spent.  Along with half of the rest of us americans.  The king is dead or dieing, long live the king....

Again, I am not attacking you but this is a heated subject.