| Hephaestos said: (read only the first 25 posts).
my input: Lebanese people supporting the hezbolla are pupets and they don't even know it... Congratulations for supporting the making of your contry into a battlefield for Syria, Iran and Israel. What do you have to gain? noting but death and economical downfall. Why is Lebanon at odds with Israel? For syrian territory and the palestinian cause? indeed, geniune Lebanese concerns... you should go at war with china for their occupation of Tibet its just as legitimate a cause. Israel has as much claim to any land in the area as the palestinians... they had a country there before, all these countries are relatively new and the land was occupied by both arabs (muslims or not) , jews and christians as a population for centuries. Moreover, besides the west bank (yes, the settlements do seem like provocation), all land occupied by Israel has been so as a result of wars declared by others with the intention of eradicating the country. Certainly, the countries complain, but losing a war entails paying a compensation, usualy in land... no peace treaty was signed, but only because the defeated refused to admit defeat...that was a generation ago. Fences are not the border, they never have been in any country, there is always a buffer zone of at least a few meters, that is especially the case in militarized zones, to prevent people from comming close to the fence in the first place. The shooters are most likely fanatic soldiers who wanted to be heroes by killing evil israelis. Lastly, I don't like israel, but the root of all the problems in the area is the refusal of arab nations to recognize the country. You don't like how it was created? well your fathers neither, they waged a few wars about this... and lost, making the contry legitimate as any country created by militaristic scition. There were always jews in the region and their right to their own country is legitimate. Most minorities do not manage to have their own nation (think Kurds in the same area), they did, live with it, hopefully in peace. Heck, my familly on both side were refugees... one side migrated to the US during WWII, the other was in the french colonies (Algeria) and lost everything during the war, yet they moved on, worked and built new lives, like billions of others throughout the centuries. Palestinians are not happy because their land and former homes are gone... well neither were the millions that were pushed away in all the wars in the past, yet they moved on, assimilated with their new populations... but here Palestinians still have a country... or what is now 2 since there are in effect 2 governements, that means they can grow, prosper and live in peace.. but only if they want to. |
1) Israel has no claim to that land as neither do Jews in general for a simple basic truths.
a. Ancient Israel was destroyed by Europeans over a thousand years before Modern Israel was created.
b. From before 500AD Arabs (of various religious backgrounds) were the majority of the population.
c. After 600AD Muslims became the majority and in fact the Dome of the Rock has stood longer than both Jewish temples combined.
d. At end of WWI, Arabs (Muslim and Christian) were about 90% of the population of just the Palestine Mandate area.
e. At end of WWII, it was still around 87% Arab.
f. During WWII, England promised (and you can read the actual agreements) that any Arab area that assisted them against the Turks would be given full Arab control at the end of the war where they were a majority.
g. From 1945 to 1948, due to tons of illegal migration from Europe, it was about 55/45 with Arabs still being the majority.
h. It took the 1948 war and a huge diaspora of Arab farmers to become the first refugees to give Jews a majority population of any part of the area.
i. The original UN charter gave Jews about 45% of total land, but more than 70% of the land that could actually be utilized for farming, etc.
j. Arabs had more than enough reasons to resist this racist and illegal theft of their land. It should have been under their full control as a state of their wishes.
k. Even from a religious point of view, the forefathers of Jews (Isaac) is the younger brother of the forefather of Arabs (Ishmael). The land is equally theirs in that respect as well as Isaac was never the only child of Abraham. Read the biblical story again, Ishmael was whom Abraham really took up the mountain as Ishmael was his only son before Isaac was born.
2) The root of the problem is the continous racists and aparthied treatment of Palestinians by all of their neighbors. First it was the Europeans that created a new European state called Israel. Then it was the Arabs that really only wanted the land for themselves and fought a unequal war multiple times that they had no chance in winning, especially considering they were not even close to being unified. Finally, its been the Jewish terrorist, also called settlers, who constantly terrorize all Arabs in WB near any of the illegal military outposts called settlements. Problem is, unless you live in the region you don't see the daily news generated from these people.
At one time I strongly argued for a full retreat to the green line and financial repayment to Palestinians for Arab homes within Israel that are lost to the millions of refugees. However, I've come to believe now that the only real solution is a full annexation of WB/Gaza by Israel with immediate full rights bestowed on the Arab populace, including refugees. However, Israel is at best to do that for WB only. In the end it wouldn't matter as time would be on Arab's side and they would quickly return to the majority population.
Finally, too much emphasis on this is bestowed on Muslim vs JewishChristian, but you must realize that a significant portion of the Arabs being maltreated are Christian. In fact the first militant Arab groups were heavily organized and populated by Christians as well. This last part has changed over time, but thats probably more to due with the way these groups have evolved. Also, the first militant terrorist groups in the region were Jewish (Stern Gang and Irgun) and many of Israels leaders were leaders of these groups. Kinda adds more flavor to how Israel really treats its Palestinian counterparts. It would be like if Arabs had won originally and their first governments were all run by Hamas.
