Why don't you believe in a god?

[Rath]

trestres said:

Rath said:

trestres said:

 

I'm basing myself on what science has said. The universe has boundaries, the universe is expanding.
Plus I don't think you understand what I'm trying to tell you. Beings outside the universe would be immaterial, infinite, atemporal, undivisable. It's impossible to understand since we are in a universe where matter and time are part of our lives. But the fact that matter or time cannot exist by their own, means there's something that has been the source for it. You can't get something out of nothing, that's one of the basic principles of logic.

Several points here. Firstly I don't believe you can't get something out of nothing is a logical axiom, for one thing it relies on causality (everything must have something else as a cause) which is completely linked to time and as such probably does not exist outside of the universe (where time probably doesn't exist)

Secondly what reason do you have to believe that logic itself exists outside of the universe?

Thirdly I believe it is another false dichotomy to assume that the choices are God created the universe or the universe came from nothing. For example Roger Penrose has recently come up with a mathematical model showing that new universes could come about when old universes essentially die.

 

Double post sorry. Something weird with the edit button.

There's no way matter, time and space can be created out of nothing if there's no intervention of an outer force capable of creating, of giving existence. By nothing I mean no preexistent matter, time or space. There has to be something that's the cause of everything that precedes it, the first uncaused cause.

Once again, you're talking causality here which only makes any sense when we are dealing with time. There is no reason to think that causality must hold true outside of the universe because there is no reason time should exist outside of the universe.

If logic doesn't exist outside the universe, then nothing has a meaning. We shouldn't be debating anything because there would never be a logic answer outside our universe and there's now way our universe exists purely by chance. There needs to be logic as a universal thing or theories about our universe would only be valid inside it, and our universe isn't eternal, it had a begining, so that would mean we cannot ever find the answer.

Our theories might only be valid inside of it. Just because you would prefer logic to exist outside the universe doesn't mean it does. As it stands there is absolutley no way to prove it either way.

The third point puts matter as the eternal thing. What about the immaterial beings, that theory is completely denying espiritual beings like humans, and we can by the use of reason reach the conclusion that there are espiritual beings. In the end, this is a circular and endless debate and we cannot answer anything because it's unreachable for any human so far. It's kinda sad to know no one will be able to properly answer the biggest questions, I know I will die without knowing the answer.

Almost certainly we both will. My hope is that one day the answers will be found though, though I'm not sure if it's even possible.

The questions are: What's the origin of the Universe? What's the origin of Life? What's the origin of Intelligent Life?

It's nice to debate about these topics, but when all the answers we hear can't be proven empirically, then it's useless. We cannot find the answers by ourselves, that's why I believe there's a superior being who at least knows these answers, that's God for me.

Why does there need to be a superior being that knows the answers?

 

 

 

lilc64 said:

 

Lol i just cant believe people dont believe in anything, you telling me you can look at the human body and many different things on this planet and think there is no design behind it. I can understand different religions having trouble in figuring out which is true and which is not but I cannot understand the people whom think there is nothing. I’m very open minded but telling me there is no intelligent design is unacceptable. Look up thyroids, your liver, any internal part of your body and tell me shit like that just happens, I’m pretty sure there would be no life on this planet if the big bang just happened, and who created the big bang. Another question would be who created God but I cant answer any of this. So ill say we will all see when we die case closed

It's something called evolution. Step processes resulting in complexity. The eye is probably the most well known example.