| RolStoppable said: This thread got quite big, but I try to the address the most important points. One guy said my OP is a cop-out and in case Nintendo doesn't win the next generation I could simply fall back on saying that Nintendo wasn't "Nintendo". So I am going to define what "Nintendo" is and what "not Nintendo" is. What "Nintendo" is: 1) The NES marks the role model for this as it had been Nintendo's most successful home console priorly to the Wii. 2) Nintendo creates games with the goal of increasing the number of active players, not to fight over the pool of existing gamers. 3) Nintendo is not restricted to making fictional and mascot based games. The bestsellers list of the NES shows numerous Nintendo sports games selling millions of copies. This defeats the notion that a game like Wii Sports is "not Nintendo". The only truly new type of game Nintendo made this generation is Wii Fit, but that doesn't make them "not Nintendo" due to point above. Wii Fit was made to expand the gaming population, just like the majority of Nintendo's NES games. 4) A focus on additicing gameplay with as little story and cutscenes as possible. 5) Doing their own thing instead of following the industry. Nintendo doesn't follow the trend, they are the trend... setters. 6) Super Mario Bros. or in other words: 2D Mario! What "not Nintendo" is: 1) Actively engaging in a console war and fighting primarily over existing gamers. This already started with the SNES which was sent out to beat Sega's Genesis/Mega Drive. Nintendo came out on top mainly due to their contracts with Japanese third parties that would prevent them from making games for Sega, Sega's own mistakes later on in the generation as well as having a killer application in Donkey Kong Country. The hardware totals show that Nintendo remained dominant in Japan, lost ground in America and was tied with Sega in Others. But despite winning the console war, Nintendo's number of consoles sold dropped generation over generation. 2) Making only fictional and mascot based games. This was the case in the Nintendo 64 and Gamecube eras when every Nintendo Sports game was a Mario Sports game. 3) Injecting more and more unnecessary cutscenes in their games. For example, Super Mario Sunshine had a couple of several minute long cutscenes in the beginning, the Super Mario Galaxy games have them too. When losing course it's not easy to get back on track right away. There are/were plenty of Wii games that still had the "not Nintendo" syndrome in them. I already mentioned Super Mario Galaxy, but the Zelda series suffers too, we'll have to see how Skyward Sword turns out which was in development for a very long time now, suggesting that there were problems regarding the direction the game would be taking during development. Another example seems to be Metroid: Other M which will definitely be the most story-driven game in the series. A case of pursuing what the rest of the industry does instead of going their own way. Nintendo had six winning systems so far: NES, SNES, Wii, GB/C, GBA and DS. NES, Wii, GB/C and DS match what I have defined as Nintendo. The SNES won despite Nintendo already losing its course. The GBA... well, it really had no competitor, so it didn't really matter much what Nintendo did. Nintendo's two losing systems, the N64 and GC, didn't retain much of what defines Nintendo as "Nintendo" and as a logical consequence Nintendo's overall console sales kept dropping. With the Wii, Nintendo returned to its roots (which is evident when comparing the NES lineup with the Wii lineup) and suddenly their back on top with old fans returning and new ones being created. Dumb luck? I don't think so. |
First of all, I really don't count handhelds in a console game discussion. The ownership type doesn't necessarily cross paths and the things required to win a handheld war is not the same as a console war. Nintendo has a good formula for handhelds (And their general strategy works very well in the handheld space).
When you move into the console realm, prior to the Wii. They've had two successful consoles (NES/SNES). Two failure consoles (N64/GC). Very much 50/50 proposition.
As to your points defining what Nintendo is :
1.) Fair enough.
2.) How do you define this? Any good business plan is to try and reach AS MANY people as humanly possible. You don't think Sony / Microsoft want to expand their active pool? You always want to expand your audience. Always. As for fighting over an existing pool of gamers? Why then did Nintendo drop the price and come out with other colors? Why put the effort in? Make no mistake about it, Nintendo is fighting over the existing pool of customers just as much as Sony and Microsoft. Just because they went in a different, more financially frugile direction doesn't mean they aren't.
3.) I would say that the inclusion of the "Mii" in almost every one of these types of games as well as the fictional design of these sports titles covers both bases of fictional and including mascot characters. It may not be another 'Mario _____' game but it surely is another version of the same song.
4.) First of all, Cutscenes really didn't even gain prominence in any way (Nor were truly possible) until the PS1/N64 eras. So while the NES may not have done it....It was probably more out of a lack of technology rather than 'desire'. Secondly, Nintendo did focus on this during the N64 era especially. Games like Mario 64/Zelda/Mario Kart/Diddy Kong Racing/Goldeneye/Donkey Kong/Banjo/Ken Griffey Baseball/ Etc. The N64 had pound for pound just as many 'Nintendo' titles as the Wii does if not more. The N64 just lost the price/hype battle, IMO. Something the Wii clearly dominated Sony and MS this generation.
5.) Again this has to be considered more the exception....Not the rule in regards to Nintendo. Was SNES a trend setter? Did they do something other than an iterative improvement? How about N64? Gamecube? I mean Nintendo has actually been more of a follower/non-trend setter more than they HAVE been given this context.
6.) I love me a good 2D Mario game as much as anybody. Big fan of platformers, 2D Shooters, Etc. But they disappeared for a spell because people grew tired of them and 3D was the new in thing. Now we're starting to see more of a retro-reaction. Which should give us a broader selection of choices. However, the NSMB was not the reason the Wii was a critical success. It was a critical success long before it's release. It's more of a chicken versus the egg. Is NSMB the reason Nintendo has been successful this time? Or is the Wii's success this time really aided the success of NSMB. I personally, believe the latter.
As for what is "Not" Nintendo.
1.) You really believe Nintendo isn't fighting primarily over existing gamers? Why lower prices? Why make additional colors? Why engage in some PR words disregarding the competition? Business is business. Don't mistake the fact that Nintendo is trying to grow the overall 'gaming' crowd. So is MS/Sony (Albeit in different directions). Nintendo is also trying to take as much of MS/Sony crowd as possible.
2.) Not true. I distinctly remember Wayne Gretzkey Hockey for N64 and Ken Griffey Jr. Baseball. Again this is a chicken or egg type argument. I would say that many of these titles we see on the Wii, are a result of the Wii being a success not because Nintendo was Nintendo. Let's face it, the Wii received horrible support from third parties while being the overwhelming market leader, how good of support do you think it would have received if it were sitting in third place? Again, you might have a point if Nintendo didn't push out almost nothing but mascot games (Even this generation). Almost every Nintendo sports game is a Mario game. Just look at the software list.
3.) But as you just said, several Wii games included this. (Super Mario Galaxy for one). Yet the Wii was a success at around 15 million consoles by the time Galaxy had released. So it really wasn't Nintendo being Nintendo that caused this. It was some other factor.
IMHO, Unique-ness/Significant price difference (Which opens doors to trying unique-ness)/Hype were what sold the Wii initially. Not anything to do with Nintendo being themselves.
