| UncleScrooge said: 1) I'll basically get to this in point 3 (without mentioned this specific example, though) 2) Do you think you have a "shit taste" as well? Honest question, no offense. I don't want to sound offensive or anything, I actually like arguing with you 3) Because business tries to identify what quality is. Business doesn't change the definition of quality, it tries to explain it. So business tries to define what quality is. That includes the artistic meaning of quality Quality is defined as "the degree to which a set of characteristics fullfills requirements". Or to put it this way: If a product does its job it is a quality product. If a work of art does its job (like inspiring you, tell you what the "producer" wanted to tell you, makes your thoughts go wild, teaches you something... whatever you want art to do) it is a quality work. Of course people have different definitions of what quality is to them. Because of this some people like Metal Gear Solid and hate Wii Sports and vice versa. Some people also like both games because they know they need to approach them with different kinds of qualities in mind because these games fulfill different jobs. It gets a lot easier to understand when you use the word "job". If you want Wii Sports to do the same job that Metal Gear does... well, of course you'll be dissappointed. It's like buying an electric car and then saying "this is utter crap, where is the fuel?" or watching a soap instead of an action movie and then going "where are the explosions?" But at the same time other people would look at a Ferrari and go "this is damaging the environment, this is utter crap!" Quality is always subjective and increased knowledge doesn't make your definition of quality more important than others. In the case of Wii Sports you say the game is shallow because you try to apply the values that make Metal Gear, Zelda, Final Fantasy, etc. quality games to it. You can't do that. You don't judge a horror movie by comparing it to a soap, either!
And the reason why Wii Sports will be of longtime quality is pretty simple: A lot of people have played videogames for the first time when they used Wii Sports (Resort). And apparently they liked it, otherwise the games wouldn't sell so extremely well. And a lot of these new gamers are children today. In 20 years these children will be grown up and they'll be in the majority and say "quality games are like Wii Sports". 20 years ago kids were laughed at because they liked Super Mario Bros and today a lot of people hail it as the best game of all time and buy a Wii for their children because of Super Mario Bros being on the system. And I bet that in 10 years the whole internet will be full of people who love Wii Sports and Mario Bros. Wii. And at some point someone will invent a new type of game with different qualities and these people will spend dozens of hours on the web wondering why these new "non-games" sell and tell everyone that they are crap and not worth playing haha :D :D :D |
And we can trust this because business needs to find the real answer. Making answers up doesn't help a business man because he wants to sell his products. So he has to stay objective.2. No, I'm pretty sure I have good taste, at least in terms of the mediums I care about.
3.
"And we can trust this because business needs to find the real answer. Making answers up doesn't help a business man because he wants to sell his products. So he has to stay objective."
This isn't true at all. Performance in the marketplace is no more true or real than performance among the critics. The problem with using a business definition for quality is that the end goal of all business endeavors is making a profit, and the end goal of art is something else entirely. Again, I bring up the example of the music industry: who would seriously argue that the best-selling artists are the best ones?
"In the case of Wii Sports you say the game is shallow because you try to apply the values that make Metal Gear, Zelda, Final Fantasy, etc. quality games to it. You can't do that. You don't judge a horror movie by comparing it to a soap, either!"
Of course I apply the values that make quality games quality games to Wii Sports. That's like telling me I need to learn to appreciate Twilight for what it is, and that it's a quality book even though it doesn't share any of the hallmarks of quality literature. Nonsense! Twilight is bad! Wii Sports is bad! No amount of relativistic mumbo jumbo will change that. Artistic merit is only subjective to an extent: there are some works that all reasonable people should be able to admit simply do not have it within them to cross the threshold into the realm of deserving expression.
Still, there's nothing wrong with indulging yourself with "popcorn" literature or music or games or what have you - I like genre fantasy just as much as the next guy. for example. But liking something doesn't make it good.
"And the reason why Wii Sports will be of longtime quality is pretty simple: A lot of people have played videogames for the first time when they used Wii Sports (Resort). And apparently they liked it, otherwise the games wouldn't sell so extremely well. And a lot of these new gamers are children today. In 20 years these children will be grown up and they'll be in the majority and say "quality games are like Wii Sports". 20 years ago kids were laughed at because they liked Super Mario Bros and today a lot of people hail it as the best game of all time and buy a Wii for their children because of Super Mario Bros being on the system."
But will these kids really remember Wii Sports fondly? Will the people whose first introduction to gaming was Wii Sports really see their interest in gaming grow over time, or will this be a passing novelty or a dead end for them? I do not think we can be sure that either will be the case.
Super Mario Bros was a game that had enough depth and required enough skill that people could replay it again and again, each time with increased pleasure. Wii Sports does not share those characteristics. I think the kids whose parents bought them Wiis as their first consoles are much more likely to remember their first Mario or Zelda game fondly, or a game like Super Smash fondly, than they are likely to remember Wii Sports fondly. When I was younger I played a lot of shitty games on the Genesis, but the one I remember most fondly is Sonic and Knuckles.
