richardhutnik said:
Kasz216 said:
richardhutnik said:
HappySqurriel said:
richardhutnik said:
Let me throw the story of the former NBA player, Ray WIlliams, into the mix:
http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2010/07/02/desperate_times/?page=1
So, we should just say, "Well, in a free society, we will end up with people being forced to live out of their cars. That is the price of enabling people to pursue their dreams and get rich."?
The guy is now living out of his car, after being a star player in the NBA.
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First off, what makes you think anyone is "forced" to live in poverty or that anyone would support a system that "forced" poverty on anyone? How is giving someone welfare and preventing them from gaining the education or experience that will lead them out of poverty not "forcing" poverty on them? How is lowering my standard of living to improve the standard of living of people who refuse to help themselves not "forcing" poverty on me?
By the way your example is an awful one because 5 people could have lived in (relative) luxury for the rest of their lives with 1 year of his salary; and it was his poor decision making that lead him to squander his good fortune and lead to his poverty. This man had opportunities beyond the vast majority of the population to get an excellent education and develop skills and relationships that would provide for him for the rest of his life, and he ends up with nothing because he wasted them.
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So, which of the following options do you prefer:
1. People actually do meaningful help to help him out.
2. He stays the way it is, and remains living out of his car the rest of his life.
3. We install life termination booths, and since he screwed up so much, we mercifully kill him, and the rest of the poor, so they don't have to suffer?
The reality is this: People do get breaks and things fail. They fall between the cracks. The question is, what of it? By the way, what bad choices do you know he made? Can you tell? Everyone ends up in his situation, because it is entirely his fault? That is true for EVERYONE?
I guess maybe then my getting a Masters degree in Information Systems was a mistake to. Well, I guess this video shows why to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V122ICNS8_0
By the way, read this shorthand and say WHERE Ray Williams failed:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/The-sad-tale-of-Ray-Williams-10-year-NBA-vet-no?urn=nba,253262
Can you point to it, or in your universe everyone who fails fails because it is their fault.
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We don't have A. B. or C now... so I don't see your point.
We mostly have D. The government very very inefficiently tries to help him out.
C. by the way is actually more a byproduct of the situation we have now intensifying when lessening.
A. Would be best... which is why we should strive for A.
In general people who are fiscally conservative and socially liberal are by far the highest donators to charity.
People who love social security and welfare and want more... are less likely to donate money to charity. It's not hard to figure out why. When we shift the job to the government... it's a lot easier to ignore the poor and homeless on the streets it's easy to ignore Ray Williams (unless your trying to make a point.)
No changes get made exactly because of the situation we have now. The situation we have now makes things worse because people stop caring. There is a lot of great work done by chairty... that works far better then what the government offers.
Heck, even instead of running itself just bid contracts out for welfare type programs in smaller spread up programs it'd work way more effiecently.
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I am actually a personal witness, in my own life, to how bad things are. I don't see people doing much here to help. I actually don't even think people have a clue on how to help. I have, for example, attempted to be involved with multiple employment seeker groups in area, and find they all tend to die off. One church I went to for this, cancelled their service, for lack of attendance and then spun it as the economy getting better. It wasn't getting better. It was just that they people had no idea on how to help people obtain employment.
Anyhow, what I would say here, as I said before, is you won't get change, unless people start caring NOW. If they don't, it won't change. What I also see is government attempting to outsource everything. This mix of private industry and government spending has shown to be a disaster, with the likes of Blackwater and Halliburton. Blackwater has been responsible for numerous war crime level attrocities that have happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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A) You act if your the only person that's ever been in such a situation... yet oddly the cases you sited once again work AGAINST your point.
B) Your "proof" is that they die off for lack of attendence. So... in otherwords the people who need help aren't searching for help to find employment. Once again, isn't this a cause of... government? I know plenty of people who'd rather keep collecting unemployment then take a "crappy" job for example. The problem isn't in the programs... it's that the people who need them aren't seeking them out. It's just like Medicare. a LARGE percent of people who don't have health insurance qualify for Medicare. They just refuse to seek out their options.
Or hell, i've been out of a job myself and avoided help when I knew I could live off my savings a bit just because it's damn embarrising to go out and seek help. Those things fail when people feel they have other options or are just ignortant other options are out there. It's like your argueing that we need medicine that makes people sick... because look how sick they are.
C) The difference between Blackwater and the regular military is that the government doesn't feel the need to coverup as much for Blackwater. That's about it.
Also, paramilitary groups have actually been extremely successful in their application. Paying private contractors a lot more to deal with threats above and beyond the call of duty for other troops, and being there when we ran out of ways to expand our army.
D) Halburton gets most of it's work via nobid contracts. Which shifts the government mindset on to them. They don't have to give a shit about what they do, because it's no-bid and they're going to keep getting work this way. Once again, it's the government doing things the wrong way the causes the problem.
