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jarrod on 10 May 2010
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Hero_time88 said:
jarrod said:
Hero_time88 said:
jarrod said:
Hero_time88 said:
jarrod said:
Hero_time88 said:
So Transformers 2 & Bad Boys 2 -> Goodfellas & Departures (Okuribito) if we apply that same logic to movie's?

Well given those films all released in different years (different decades even in some cases), I'd say your comparison is inherently flawed.  None of those films were in direct competition.

Uh? It's just to reflect the difference between a commercial film and less commercial movie's which are better.

By the way, even today people prefer to see the ramdom Michael Bay flick than a Martin Scorsese flick.

 

In terms of the market?  The commercial film is probably "better".  Commercial films can still flop though (ie: Waterworld), and less/non-commerical films can be huge hits (ie: The Blair Witch Project).

To extend this to games, how would you define a commercial and a non-commercial game then?  Are Nintendo games commercial while PlayStation games non-commercial?  

No I say the mainstream ussually goes to what is more accesible or better marketed to them. Games like Mario Kart Wii (probably the worst in the series) and Wii Sports do that well, just like Transformers 2 does that in the movie industry, while a movie like Shutter Island is still pretty commercial (DiCaprio), it will always appeal to less poeple simply because it just isn't as accessible and there are audiences that you just can't reach with those kind of movie's.

Well sure, but that doesn't really answer my question for how you define a "commercial" versus a "non-commecrial" game (unless you're saying it's defined by results?).   I mean Pixar and Ghibli are both inherently commercial film studios, does that mean the same for Nintendo (EAD) then?  Is it like art or pornography, we can't define it but we know it when we see it?

Also, I'd say Double Dash is pretty easily the worst Mario Kart (MKWii is leagues better tuned, better polished, better looking, with dramatically more content and online play), unless you count the Namco Arcade GP games (which are absolute CRAP).

Obviously devolopers make games to make money, but I see the more commercial games as the one's that have been designed to reach a big audience, and obviously not only the "Wii series" fall into this category, but also the CoD's, Uncharted, GTA, GoW, Halo and practicly every game which is able to sell "great" in one of the regions.

Games like Blazblue, Disgaea or Fragile Dreams on the other hand are more niche and even with a bigger marketing machine behind it, they could just reach a certain type of audience. Sometimes they can of course give us a surprise, like Demon's Souls did last year.

When I look at Double Dash in retrospective it probably was a dissapointing title, but atleast the better player had a higher change of winning and mantain a distance of the computer or the noobs if he was better than them. The balance was already gone compared to the other versions, but Mario Kart Wii did make things even worser and to me it just feels as subpar product. The old tracks add some nostalgia, which is always good, but that's about the best thing I can say about it.

 

 

 

 

The thing with all those "commercial" games you've listed though, is that their promotional budgets generally dwarf similar titles.  I mean in terms of design, is Metro 2033 really less commercial than say Bioshock?   Is Demon's Souls really less commercial than Monster Hunter?  Is GTR less commercial than Forza?  Is Deca Sports less commercial than Mario & Sonic?  I'm not so sure if design alone is really the key here?

Also, I think you're underselling Mario Kart Wii here, skill and technique is paramount in that game.  Bikes especially add a huge new variable and their own risk/reward... I mean yeah, generally items drops were made more liberal (to emphasize combat for multiplayer) and powersliding was simplified (specifically to prevent snaking btw) but actually winning the race, the more experience/better player will almost always win.  Just as much to the same degree as DD, honestly you should consider spending more time with the game?  Personally, I'd say it's probably the 2nd or 3rd best in the series overall (behind SMK and maybe DS), and the only area it really falls down is in the combat/arena mode (which has sucked for the series since MK64 highpoint).