By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
r505Matt on 22 April 2010
Edit Thread
Grahamhsu said:
r505Matt said:
Actually, it's almost ironic that you mention Louis Armstrong. My teacher used to tell me stories about him about how he literally blew out his lips. Him and Freddie Hubbard both, though Louis mostly recovered. Especially if you're talking about trumpet, sooo many trumpet players (myself included) use bad technique in some way, even some of the greats. Very few trumpet players play with the minimum required pressure, most push, at least a little bit. I know exactly what you mean, everyday I still struggle everyday to be less tense, more fluid more free in my playing. I used a lot of shoulder in my playing until I got into the conservatory where they taught me how to use my fingers. Freddie and Louis both used a LOT of pressure, which really puts a burden on the lips. Louis though was a genius, he was able to overcome his problems with his lips, Freddie was not. 

My point here is that talent is a fickle b****. She can give you all sorts of things, but she can take them away as well. This isn't as much of an issue in classical, though there are is a reason that most principal trumpet players can't do it for more than 10-15 years, I know playing softly in brass can be extremely bad for the player but had no idea the instrument itself puts such a strain on the body @_@ unless you are Adolph Herseth (trumpet god). But if you are talking about jazz (or anything non-classical I suppose, in terms of western styles), plenty of players rely on some bad habits to propel their talent.

But what I'm seeing from the conversation between the two of you, is that you guys mostly agree. With hard work, you can achieve a certain level, but you need the talent to go beyond that. Personally though, I just consider talent a time-saver. I semi-agree for me intelligence is the time saver, a more intelligent person can figure things out faster and do more with his/her time. My teacher has a saying, with determination, dedication, and desire, you can do anything. The 3 D's he called them. With all 3 of those things, you will enjoy what you do, work hard at it, and find the proper guidance to propel yourself. Completely agree with you on that, but to become what Reasonable was saying, Bach, Da Vinci, would require the sacrifice of a lifetime and a little extra padding on the talent. In our time period it simply isn't possible, unless you home school the child at birth. This brings me to a question I've wondered, do you think the public school system has weakened our potential artists?

My teacher also used to tell my stories about Wynton Marsalis practicing breathing exercises we were taught for 8-12 hours a day when he was younger. He may have exaggeratedbut the point is there, even the talented have to work hard to get towards the top. I agree completely with that statement, I've read many bios and auto-bios of talented men, Michelangelo, Heifetz, Nathan Milstein (I hated him after reading it though), and plenty of other small accounts from The Way I Play, and extremely few people can get away with less hard work, Ysaye I believe never practiced in the summer, but Ysaye was the violin's technical god of his time.

Edit: And further, just on the exact topic of creating art, skill is not a necessity, skill is just a means. It's all about reaching people. An amateur artist may be able to create more compelling and moving art than an artist that has be practicing/working/painting/sculpting/playing for 10-20-30-40+ years. And it's not always about talent, sometimes it's more a sort of luck, or wisdom, to find something that reaches people. To me, art is about reaching people and moving them in some form, skill/talent isn't needed for that, so yes, I believe any living person can be an artist of some form. Talent can help though. Agree again, a measure of luck and wisdom is definitely involved, why else does a one hit wonder song sometimes pop out.

 

Actually, it's funny. It's not that I don't care about trumpet anymore, but since I started learning piano, guitar, and singing, the little bit of tension I still had essentially vanished. Before, my whole future seemed invested in the trumpet, and once that was gone, I was able to do that last bit of relaxing that I needed.

Well, playing softly isn't really bad for brass, it's more just an issue of playing with pressure. Any pressure damages the lips. Unfortunately just about every brass player ever uses at least a little bit of pressure. My teacher actually had his teeth punched out (funny and long story). For a year, he was trying to learn to play with dentures. Even the slightest bit of extra pressure beyond just contact with the lips would cause his dentures to crack and eventually shatter in his mouth. He was forced to find a way to play with no pressure at all. VERY few brass players can claim they do the same, even among some of the best.

I don't think there's a problem inherent in the idea of public schooling, I think there's more a problem in the home itself. Some parents really push their kids to practice, which is great and all, but some of those kids grow up hating music. Then there's the problem of false expectations where parents get their kids lessons, and expect to have little Mozarts within 3 months. It's just unrealistic. Though maybe the problem is even deeper, and is more of a society thing. As a society, we're turning more and more apathetic with each generation. If anything I think that is the biggest problem.

Yeah, some people think if you have talent, you don't have to work hard. Talent is a funny thing in general, and I'm not sure how much I believe in its existence. I've seen kids who start off and sound AWFUL and turn out to be my best students, and kids who come in who seem talented and make no progress. And I'm only talking about talent in regards to music. There are an infinite number of ways to explain something to a student. So if a elementary school teacher happens to explain some things in the perfect way for 1 or 2 students to understand, that's not talent, that's luck on their part for being with a teacher that can explain things well to them. Or, conversely, a student that has trouble with one teacher might flourish and seem talented with another. Or sometimes a student is just lucky and figures out a good/decent way to play an instrument. Still luck though.

All of our experiences go towards everything we do. The people we meet, the things we find out that we enjoy or don't at different times in our lives, classes we take, any and everything we do goes towards that. Just because some people experience what they need to be most successful doesn't necessarily mean they are gifted. They could be, but we don't know enough about genetics yet to determine something like that.