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Kasz216 on 12 December 2007
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Smash_Brother said:

Xyrax said: Thats nice, and I don't really care that you take so much pride in gaming that you feel these game take so much "skill". Frankly your being far to damn lenient with the word. Performing a heart transplant is difficult. Getting a freaking high score in Guitar Hero is not more skilled in any way than strategizing your move skill set and attack patterns in some turn based RPG in order to beat a boss or encounter. Your letting your bias into this situation. DDR requires alot more reflex and coordination than FF13 will but its one of the most freaking casual games in the damn industry. Memorizing patterns, physical repetition and silly button pressing reflexes does NOT make a game hardcore and I find it laughable that you think so.

You've takes some sour playing of a bad JRpg in your past that you dont like and tried to stretch and lay it over ALL rpgs and label them casual and thats just pure bullshit. It doesnt matter how you spin it RPG are in FACT one of the hardcore genres PERIOD. One of the PRIMARY descriptions of casual gaming is time spent on the hobby. You cant even begin to try and shoehorn RPGs into that category. There are good Rpgs and there are bad. And no, not all of them rely on mindless grinding and other bullcrap. Suggesting you can just button tap your way to victory without any thinking or party tuning/strategizing of any sort in your average RPG is crap. Like I said, your opinion is wrong.



So in summary, you're saying that RPGs are hardcore because they're boring enough that normal people refuse to play them?
Even I have to disagree with that. A number of RPGs like the Tales games do an excellent job of blending solid real-time combat with RPG elements. These games allow skill to factor heavily in performance and by no means are these games deserving of being called "casual", but that's because the players can use personal skill to affect the outcome instead of a random number generator fueled with statistics.
Technically, even Peggle is more "hardcore" than a TB-RPG because you at least have some initial input regarding the direction and momentum of the ball. TBs are just a RNG doing the work for you while you make selections from a menu.
Boring ≠ hardcore.

No, putting lots of hours into a game = hardcore. That's the only definition anymore. Otherwise there haven't been more then 6 hardcore games created since the SNES because games have become a LOT easier and require a lot less time and skill since then. Even games that require "skill" are really just a matter of time, as I haven't played one game in the PS1 Era on that was ever unbeatable to anyone who had ever played a videogame system before. There is no game that can't be beaten, so to make some fake dichotomy where the difference is your expierence or your virtual avatars expierence is silly. Hours spent on it are pretty much all that matters. Also, it's not that RPGs are boring (You may think they are though.) They are hardcore, because at bare minmium your looking at 30 hours for most RPGs, with NO sidequests and NO level grinding. That takes a serious dedication there... if you want to do nearly everything it takes HARCORE dedication. Plenty of people put 150+ hours of play in some RPGs just to max everything out. Then they replay the game from the start to play it another way and get an alternate ending. The more time your average player puts into a game = the more hardcore the game is.