aragod said:
Are you talking from your personal experience, someone's else or from what you've read around the web? "advanced Starcraft" as any "advanced" level in any game allways comes down to the same scenarios and same conditions. When we've played as CTs on de_prodigy for the 100th time, things don't get too "interesting" anymore. The same can be said for any game. I know the basics of Starcraft, I know my Warcraft 3 pretty well and I know CS through and through. The most important ability in SC was, is and allways will be micromanagement. Everything else comes from experience which is gained through playing and watching replays. I can look up all the famous matches of korean stars, study how they play and why they do what they do, but in the end, all that is for nothing, if you micro sucks. Starcraft = micro. That is a fact. You can master everything else in that game during one weekend of rigorous training. (I've seen that, during bootcamps RTS gamers had trainers who were going through every silly information, tech tree, build tree, hero comp, hard stats, whatever... if you can memorize how to counter different race and it's setup, you won't lose any time thinking about it during game, and that's how W3 is beeing played till this day) And the most important thing in "advanced Counter Strike" is not memorization of levels, these levels are as simple as you can get, with around 6 official maps which are beeing played unchanged for 10 years in a row... Nor is it reflex per se, since fast response time doesn't equal precision. It's the hard aim, which equals micro in SC. And your "knowledge" of techniques and rules is the ability to read the game. It's the same for CS as for SC as for any game played on the highest level. The top gamers could allways hop from one game to another and keep their respective levels even though they've changed genres. From RTS to FPS, from FPS to MMORPG, from Fighter to RTS. |
It really sounds like you're trying to say I'm using my personal experience as fact while clearly using your own as examples. We can go back and forth trying to show each other up with 'examples' but I'm not really interested in that. I was just stating that everything I've seen from media to the people I've known (who really do or have played competative Starcraft or Counter Strike) describe the games in this way. And if I wanted to describe the games myself, I would agree. Sure, there's a certain amount of skill to be had in Counter strike. But when it comes down to it, it mostly comes down to a lot of repetition, memorization and timing. And people who have played the same levels over years and done the same actions hundreds of thousands of times that they can shoot someone in the head in their sleep. And is that really skill...or memorization?
However, I do not think there are a lot of people running around hopping from one genre to another and becoming the 'best' at each of those games. In fact, I find its quite the opposite, with a lot of people playing the same genres because they're comfortable in those genres. People jumping from one MMO to the other. People playing one FPS to the other. People playing one RTS and going onto another. You don't see the top players in Counter Strike suddenly jumping over to Starcraft and blowing away all the Koreans. They're still on Counter Strike or playing games like Battlefield 2 or MW2.
RolStoppable said:
Well, people who played Mario Kart Wii against me certainly do think that the game takes a lot of skill. I always have to laugh at people who say that Mario Kart 64 was all that (also goes to Kenryoku). The AI in that game is the most unforgiving rubberband AI I witnessed in a racing game. The item balance is non-existing, you can get golden mushrooms in second place, giving you a winning lead. The shortcuts are gamebreaking. Mario Kart 64 was a complete rush job to get it out for the holidays in Japan in 1996. It's the worst Mario Kart game, because it lacks polishment in pretty much every area. What it has going for it are the fond memories of the four player splitscreen which was a rather new and big thing at that time. |
I think you should go back and play MK64. At least it was playable and you could finish the game. I could stay in the lead easily and finish every race in 1st. And the game wasn't harsh as the computer still utilized the 'selection' system for items, meaning it had a better chance of getting items based on what place it was in line. It would only get a star or red turtle shell if it was farther back in line.
In Mario Kart Wii or Mario Kart DS, I can play the game and consistently be hit by the AI with blue turtle shells and POW blocks, like clockwork, on the third lap. Or being hit by three red turtle shells in a row. Even by people in third place. Many times when I'm over gaps or right before the goal line. Its not a matter of 'skill' when you're being targetted by items you cannot dodge and they always come whenever you get a certain distance ahead of the computer. The only way to avoid it is to purposefully stay in 3rd or 4th place (where you have the chance to get red turtle shells or a pow block) and use items on the third lap right at the end. Which is totally counter-productive to the point of the game. You know, trying to be first.
The games that have the true unforgiving AI is Mario Kart DS and Wii. And its not unforgiving AI so much as they just aren't programmed well and single you out.
Six upcoming games you should look into:
