When did you give up on the JRPG?

[lestatdark]

Scoobes said:

lestatdark said:

Scoobes said:

Are you serious? Or have I read that wrong? Story-telling is the part of WRPGs that has advanced the most in recent years. The story's themselves tend to be somewhat generic but the way they tell them has embraced advances in technology and has decision-making that is incredibly impactful with serious consequences.

There is quite simply more variety and evolution in WRPGs, although I personally think this has to do with what classifies a JRPG. The requirements for a game to be a JRPG are much stricter than "It has to come from Japan". When someone does innovate it's sometimes not even classified as a JRPG anymore (e.g. Demon's Souls).

OT: I haven't completely given up on them, although I do play them a lot less than before. I just find that currently WRPGs are more worthy of my time as they tend to offer newer and more varied playstyles with story's that I find more engaging. The JRPGs I have played this gen just aren't engaging me as much as they did 5-10 yrs ago. The other problem is that I don't own a DS so I'm obviously missing out on a lot of JRPGs that I could potentially find enjoyable.

A little off topic but FFXIII has annoyed me slightly (my latest JRPG). It's tried to concentrate on story but the lack of towns means there is no respite from the constant grinding and battles... even though the battle system is probably one of the best in the series imo. The other problem is that whilst I don't mind linearity, it's so obviously linear (almost to the point of travelling in a straight line from A to B with not a lot in between) through masssive sections of the game with a major lack of side stories/quests and bonus areas other than to go back to constant grinding. Basically:

FFXIII= (Story + Grind)ⁿ

Actually it hasn't advanced all that much, especially if you take a look on how story telling was on Planescape Torment and Fallout 2. The way that the story is being told nowadays is what's different, but that doesn't mean essentialy better. 

Decision making in WRPG's isn't anything new as well, a quick run through Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale will confirm you just that. Plus, don't forget that this all stems from the original Ultima series, which it's epitome, Ultima VIII, pretty much has every basic setting that you see in modern day WRPGs.
Plus, who can forget the expansive Elder Scrolls series, which laid the foundations for a true sandbox experience on WRPGs, especially its second iteration, Daggerfall.

I don't disagree with the fact that WRPGs seem to be evolving more than JRPGs, but it's due to the facts i've laid out in my first post. The breakout of WRPGs on consoles contributed immensily to this evolution into untapped territory. But to say that JRPGs are pretty much the same is one of the most blatant missconceptions nowadays. JRPGs have already tapped into so many different mechanics and have overlapped so many distinct presentantions, that it's difficult to find a true innovation to the genre. Even Demon's Souls stems a lot from the King's Field games.

At your first comment, I agree, the story itself hasn't advanced much (Planescape and Deus Ex being my faves, both about 10yrs old), but as you say, the telling part has and that is actually where I think the evolution has been important. Games are a very different media to books and film and it's the "telling" part that really sets it apart. So even with a poor-ish story, if they can tell it brilliantly then it can still be superb and suck you in. Take Mass Effect 2 for instance, the story is actually very generic, yet it's the way it's told and the way it grips you to actually care about the characters more than you would if it was just cut-scenes with a brilliant storyline.

The decision comment was more about the evolution of that feature. I know it's been in existence for ages. However, I don't know about you but I find the decisions have become tougher and tougher and far more mature, especially if you look at a game like The Witcher where there really is no good or evil, just completely different opinions. This in itself adds to the way the story is told and makes you care more about the characters these decisions have an effect on.

Finally, whilst JRPGs have tapped into many mechanics, I think there is still plenty of room to innovate and eventually there will be a JRPG that will come out that shows people this (of course, as I said in my original post, some may not classify it as a JRPG which is where I think this misconception stems from).

I agree that nowadays WRPGs are doing a better job at gripping players into the story, mainly because WRPGs tend to not disconnect the player from the action, instead giving you very interesting conversations and interactions. In this aspect, I think WRPGs have taken a lesson out of the Half Life book and improved it to fit the genre, and have done it well.

Decisions on WRPG have also become more mature because games themselves have been allowed to dwelve into more mature grounds than previously was "allowed" to the medium. A WRPG dealing with hommosexuality, genocide or any other controversial theme in the 80s or 90s would simply be a no go and would only further fuel the stigma of games being "dangerous". Nowadays, factoring a much bigger acceptance of video games as a true entertainement medium, WRPGs have pushed the envelope into how much themes they can explore.

That's why I said that WRPGs have been constantly pushing the envelope into untapped territory, and they have done so better than JRPGs, but that's not to say that JRPG haven't dwelved on those themes as well. Just not with the same sense of interactivity that current WRPGs provide