The biggest domestic US vote of my lifetime is today...

[caz604]

HappySqurriel said:

Legend11 said:

Miguel_Zorro said:

I'm a Canadian. I think most Americans don't know what they're getting themselves into.

If I get sick, I have to wait several hours to see a doctor. When I finally get to see a doctor, I get maybe 10 minutes with them. What good is "free" health care (It's not free, I pay more for it through taxes than I would pay in a free market system) if I can't get it when I need it? Generally, if I go to a doctor, I leave without getting the issue resolved.

I'll use a common analogy - the car. In the American system, everybody buys the car that they can afford. Some people can afford amazing cars. Unfortunately, some people can't afford a car at all.

In the Canadian system, the people who can afford the really nice car still have to pay for it, but they don't get it. Instead, everybody gets the same, unreliable 30 year old car. 9 times out of 10, it doesn't even start. On the 1 time out of 10 that it actually does start, you're lucky if it doesn't blow up with you inside it.

Lots of health care systems have their problems. The American system has issues that have needed fixing for a long time. However, people who hold up the Canadian system as some sort of success model (I'm looking at you, Michael Moore) are either ignorant, intentionally misleading people, or both.

I think it's your post that is intentionally misleading people.  Any emergency room is based on triage and the reason you waited for so long is because they deemed others to be have a more serious medical emergency.  You would experience the exact same kinds of wait times in the majority of hospitals in the United States. 

If you ever find yourself in a serious accident you'll be singing the praises of our system because that's really where it shines.  The majority of bankruptcies in the United States have medical costs as a signficant factor.  Also for those that will try to blame that on a lack of health insurance, 75% of such bankruptcies are from families covered by health insurance.*

As for your 1 out of 10 claim, where are you getting that from?  Are you claiming 9 out of 10 Canadians die because of inadequate medical care?  Are you saying 9 out of 10 people in Canada don't get adequate medical care?  Seriously what exactly are you claiming and show us some numbers to back up your claim.

*Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5530Y020090604

While I'm not going to try to support his statistics ...

The Canadian healthcare system has been on a steady decline throughout my entire life, and what we now have is a system that is crumbling and falling apart and is unlikely to survive another 10 years without substantial reform. Unfortunately, there has been significant brainwashing in Canada and people are taught from a very young age that universal healthcare is one of Canada’s crowning achievements which prevents a large portion of the population from being willing to accept the flaws; and most reasonable suggestions (to put us on par with the best healthcare systems around the world) are immediately discounted because they would lead to an "American Style Healthcare System"

The main problem is the Canadian healthcare system is seeing the same kind of uncontrolled cost increase that every (western) healthcare system is seeing; and most of the attempts to control costs have resulted in lower quality and access to healthcare, and the infrastructure (both physical and otherwise) has not been able to keep up to date.

People who use the Canadian healthcare system as a model of greatness (or even claim that it is adequate) are uninformed or misleading people.

While I'm not going to wholefully agree or disagree with all of your arguments.  The universal healthcare plan isn't whats wrong, its the system that is.  When it comes to most healthcare systems, doesnt matter where you come from, politics always get involved.

Now I'm not an expert by any means, but I do have responisbilities in the healthcare field as I am a trustee for a benifits plan.  There definitely needs some reform in the system, but nothing so drastic as to what is going on in the US. 

It is a huge industry and to state that it is a model of greatness/lacking would be a misrepresentation of any situation, so I would have to somewhat disagree with your last sentence as well(assuming a negative context).

The only part of your argument that I can agree with is that costs are going up.  However there may be many underlying issues going on that can be contributing to the rising costs of healthcare.  (Babyboomers, drug costs-especially since we import many of them from the states and abroad, insurance companies private and public health benefit plans, nursing shortage/doctor shortage, etc). 

It is just too big of an organism to state whether its a positive value to the average citizen or a negative.  My only opinion would be, and this is purely subjective, I would rather have universal healthcare than live somewhere else that doesnt have it.  Politics aside.